This.
I’m sure talking about the 30days challenge from Raid Owl and I have an idea of his conclusion. First he’s a power user (not in the fact of tweaking and scratch in the file system), he needs a lot of stuff to work. And for someone outside of the traditional office work or maybe developing, Linux is hard to use for graphics works, so sure Linux Mint is not for this kind of people but you should always recommended it to “normal” people and beginner in Linux. Sure in this case his conclusion is wrong, he should have used Fedora, Arch or OpenSUSE, but that’s it.
Older packages, but not too old, generally provide better stability. Problems can also come from packages being too new and not having all the standout issues worked out of them.
around 1 year and a half, thats way too long, considering the Pipewire, OBS, Kernel, Gaming and other drivers updates. Not even mentioning all the updates KDE and Gnome just got in the last 3 months.
stay away from debían stable or slackware then…
I generally would for desktop use, and absolutely wouldn’t rexommend them for a new user.
Newer kernels are available, they even have a gui for it. Why would a Cinnamon user care about KDE or GNOME updates? (Some of which are broken on Fedora, like rdp login)
Mint Debian can run 6.7 right now.
And I’m on 6.5 right now running the Mint Edge ISO edition on Mint 21.3
Older packages, but not too old, generally provide better stability.
And worse compatibility. Old packages are a no go for upstream supported hardware like Intel’s and AMD’s.
You are right, I wanted to do some nodejs and realized that the package in the repo was Node version 12.something while latest node is version 20.something.
Also they still ship Python 3.10 which is ancient technology by today’s standard, luckily nothing major is added between 3.10 and 3.12
Their mirrors are worst, ALL OF SELECTABLE OPTIONS FROM MIRROR SELECTOR which shows up at 47 KB/sec which just hurts your area spanning from asshole to large intestines.
I use bridgetide linux mint mirror btw
Linux users can’t even agree on what distro is actually beginner friendly, so how am I supposed to pick one with any confidence?
I know its one of the strengths of Linux, but I can’t help but laugh that the response to “you can’t agree on one, how can I?” is for several people to suggest several distros.
That’s really depending on your use cases, for example if I want to install distro for my grandma use Mint, for a graphic guy (as in this example) use Arch or Fedora (or even OpenSUSE), etc.
Linux users can’t even agree […] so how am I supposed to pick one with any confidence?
Easy. You make a post like the OP, count the positive mentions of distros in the comments, and bam, you have your distro of choice. It’s called the Linux newbie roulette and works kind of like the magic hat in Harry Potter that sorts you into your house.
- Find a distro, run into problems
- Ask for help
- Get asked why the fuck you chose that distro when it’s obviously for super brains
- Repeat
The solution is to not be cconfident and remain open minded. You can switch any time
The thing is, I don’t care to distrohop and experiment with this or that. I just want to use my computer. Until I see a distro that can convince me that switching will be actually painless (not ‘long time linux user painless’, but ‘casual new user that does more than just web browse’ painless) I’ll just use windows.
What would you need for convincing?
Specifically? I don’t know. It would likely help if the conversation around new user distros was a bit less of an argument or if the number of suggested distros was a bit less. It would help with the decision paralysis aspect of it at least. I see enough threads of experienced users troubleshooting more than I really want to deal with, I stopped maintaining my modded skyrim installation because I was fixing when I could be playing and I don’t like the idea of my whole computer being like that because I chose the wrong hardware (I have nvidia)
The simple way is to dual boot or even simpler, set up a Linux distro in a Windows VM.
Let’s you play/see if the distro works for you.
TBH, I’ve got 1 machine where Windows is more problematic than the Ubuntu that is setup to dual boot… Can’t bring myself to do a fresh install of Windows lol…
@Default_Defect @Magnolia_ The best Distro for beginners is the one, a friend or family member can give support.
I’m pretty sure I’m the only person in my circle who even knows what Linux is.
You are on the path to be that family member or friend for someone else.
You are on the path to be that family member or friend for someone else. Welcome.
Linux is a niche. Picking any distro that isn’t the most popular is going one step deeper into a niche. A niche, within a niche.
Just use the most popular distro… Ubuntu
Problem solved.
I fucking hate Ubuntu. Mostly because you’re right.
Linux is a niche
idk it seems pretty popular to me
Just use the most popular distro… Ubuntu
well linux is a extremely general component, and there are many linux based OS’s for different applications. Ubuntu might be user friendly on server(not sure) but on desktop is pretty trash for example (no flatpak, bad support for newer hardware).
you need to pick an OS that is user friendly for your usecase, there is no way to have one single OS to fit all possible needs. doesn’t matter what kernel it is based on.
Ubuntu isn’t the most popular and hasn’t been for a while. It actually has a lot of issues new users are likely to run into, including lots of spurious error messages. Apparently the top 5 according to distro watch is: MX Linux, Mint, EndeavorOS, Debian, and Manjaro.
So essentially debian, arch and ubuntu derivatives.
I’m sorry, I can’t believe that MX Linux and EndeavorOS are popular or recommended. I’ve never heard of those or seen any recommendations for that.
I’ve seen Mint recommended.
People pushing arch on newbies? Wtf?
If you haven’t heard of EndeavorOS that’s because you are out of the loop. Entirely your issue. It’s a much better alternative to Manjaro essentially.
Also that’s general popularity according to page hits, nothing to do with newbies. Newbies aren’t the majority of Linux users.
Not that there is anything wrong with recommending EndeavorOS to Newbies. The whole point of arch derivatives like that is to make installing arch simpler and easier for the user. Arch is actually a better base distro imo than say Ubuntu for this. It has packages for pretty much anything in the AUR, no digging up PPAs for everything. Likewise it’s all up-to-date too.
I don’t remember MX Linux ever being that popular before, but maybe I am out of the loop.
came here to spread the good word of endeavor os
MX
I agree with @[email protected] here. Could you describe what issues are people having? What is their user profile (programmers, writers, …)?
I think the onboarding and new user experience for Mint could be better, but I think there’s one important thing that I think makes Mint a good intro distro: Its Ubuntu base.
If you look up guides for “linux” it usually gives instructions for Ubuntu, which usually also apply to Mint. Likewise, if you look for software downloads you tend to find Ubuntu debs.
I know flatpak fixes these issues to an extent, but I think we’re not there yet.
some of those ubuntu instructions that come up jn search results are from as far back as the mail order ubuntu cd era and installing debs directly is a slippery slope
I wish it shipped a newer kernel
They have a fairly new version called Edge that ships with a newer kernel (currently 6.5).
6.5 is not a new kernel though. I am on 6.9. Maybe they should move the normal release to 6.5 and make edge use the latest stable kernel or something.
It’s easy to install, it’s Ubuntu based which means stable and a wide variety of software and support. Cinnamon looks beautiful in Mint and works perfectly. Installing a deb is a breeze and using the App Store is way easier than using YAST. The cli commands are now easy to understand or remember compared to apt.
Fedora usb creation is a nightmare and can potentially f up your bios if something goes wrong. DNF is also but easy to understand or remember compared to apt.
Gnome is too barebones for a first time user whereas Cinnamon is feature rich and is themed very well. Plus great wallpapers are included. The lock screen wallpapers are easily changed and look great too.
As long as there is no shit Nvidia card the driver installation tends to work perfectly. Don’t use Nvidia people. They are a shit, unethical, don’t give a crap about Linux company. Use AMD.
And for Linux users who’ve been around longer, there’s Linux Mint Debian Edition which for us is even better because it’s not Ubuntu based but Debian based and stable.
I get the latest Firefox directly from Mozilla and any app I can’t find in Synaptics I can normally get in Flatpak. Works perfectly well for me. I highly recommend it.
Fedora usb creation is a nightmare and can potentially f up your bios if something goes wrong.
I have to ask obvious question first. How?
It does some weird formatting to the usb stick. You literally have to use their tool to unformat it again otherwise it’s screwed. That’s been my experience.
I had an issue on my MacBook bios safety installing Fedora. Wouldn’t boot and even if I tried installing Ubuntu over it, still would not boot.
Had to reinstall Mac OS and have it repair the bios. Only after that could I get Linux installed and booting again.
I don’t know how they screwed it up but they did.
I’m not sure what you mean by broken bios. If you has broken bios, you wouldn’t be able to reinstall Mac OS.
Also any formatting tool in any OS should be able to turn bootable USB stick back to storage only USB stick. Windows, Linux, Mac, Haiku, *BSD, original Unix. Anything.
Mac OS doesn’t install like a traditional OS. It downloads an iso from the cloud, stores it locally and then installs itself. It lets you open a terminal and I put in some commands to clear and restore the bios before installing the OS.
Normally any formatting tool should work on the USB but Fedora does something to the USB that prevents that. It definitely ruined a usb 3 drive I had and no amount of formatting would get it to work properly until I used their Fedora usb tool.
They are doing something weird.
Don’t use Nvidia people. They are a shit, unethical, don’t give a crap about Linux company. Use AMD.
Yeah if only VR would work hassle free without Nvidia… At this point it became a Stockholm situation for me
I only just switched to Linux this past week and I use Mint. It was suggested to me by someone here on lemmy. It was easy to set up, customize, and get all my stuff working on it. I have World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV, Elden Ring and a few other games all working on it. The only issue, and right now it’s a minor one, I’m having is the 535 nividia drivers can cause random stutters/lag every now and then but nothing major.
My point is for people like me who are new to linux and don’t want to get overwhelmed I think Mint is great. I know eventually i’ll change to a different more “advanced” distro, right now I have my eye on CachyOS, but I don’t think I’m there quite yet to confidently install it.
You think LM being “too old” is a problem for newbies? I’ve been running some distro or other since RedHat 5. I it took me 6 weeks of waiting for Fedora to sort out most of the issues, (and I STILL have some minor ghosting issues and I ain’t no gamer), and 4 tries to get Fedora 40 to successfully take the nVidia drivers for the GTX1650 chipset in my laptop.
You think a new wannbe convert is going to put up with that?
Laughs in Debian Stable
-
Excitedly get new machine. Install Debian.
-
Not so excitedly search error messages.
-
Dejectedly find need kernel/drivers that’s 18 months later than the Debian versions
-
boot sysrescuecd to find next distro to write to USB drive …
-
kick self for buying shiny, latest hardware without checking for linux support. Again…😡
-
These thumbnails are also the reason why people stay away from Linux. How is the little girl relevant to your question?
from the thumbnail and title text i thought i was browsing 4chan
The average person finds these creepy, and so you’ll keep the average person away.
I personally don’t get it either, it does look like a 6 year old girl to me and it seems completely off-topic, but I don’t question it so long as it’s not sexual in nature.
Couldn’t possibly agree more. One of the biggest barriers to sharing my enthusiasm for Linux with my friends is filtering out all of the cringey anime weeb shit that somehow gets posted along with it. Why does open source software need to be associated with creepy drawings of little girls? Absolutely the worst vibes.
It’s understandable when it comes from niche programs with solo devs. You are likely to be a degen when you spend your whole day in front of your computer. So you likely also have degen habits like the one here. But if it’s from group of devs then yeah that’s straight up irritating.
Also you in the sense not you. English not my main language.
Hur durr… You have different interests… Therefore degenerate…
Do you even realize how incredibly stupid the whole concept of tribalism is?
My understanding of degeneracy is well defined.
degenerate behavior, especially behavior considered sexually deviant
Fortunately I do not have any interest on little kids so yes it is deviating from my/societal interest therefore a degen.
That’s where you’re wrong kiddo. The downvotes are because you are jumping to conclusion about lolis and other sexualization.
The fascination with child personas for most anime fans are just that. It’s cute. The same ways dogs are cute, and cats are cute. I really doubt they have a fetish on children, although there are some that do. I really don’t think it’s right to mash them all together.
Idk where you are from. But someone making it their hobby to watch cute little girls is considered quite creepy in my place.
Ik that’s also a reason and i stand by my views which also happens to be the views of the general society.
Hobby is anime which includes much more than “watching little girls”. With phrasing like yours it seems that you push all people like that like some creeps that just look at children.
The idea that I’m trying to convey, is that personification of a technology with art into something cute, cool or whatever doesn’t automatically mean sexual deviation or anything along the lines.
Also stereotyping is not exactly something you should defend with “general society”
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for correctly using the term and calling out the degenerates who self-insert as little girls everywhere.
Maybe because i worded it a bit like im attacking linux hobbyists. I am one myself. And maybe I also fit in a different definition of the term degen. But yeah I don’t agree with the one dude that thinks cosplaying little girls is a hobby lol.
In a sense we all spend so much time virtually, sometimes it feels dystopian to me. Not saying it’s wrong but it’s fascinating for sure.
She uses arch btw
Yes I do
Idk, I feel like gatekeeping is a bigger problem than anime thumbnails.
I would have to disagree. What you are saying is toxic communities that reply RTFM to every question like arch or gentoo. Those aren’t beginner friendly distros. Mint, ubuntu, pop, fedora all have wonderful communities and quick support.
Windows is more documented. Not better but more. So when someone migrates to linux they panic because they can’t find resources like they used to do. How to fix this? Just give it time. More windows enshittification, more migration, more questions in support, more answers. No more gstekeeping like feeling.
The gatekeeping I was referring to is giving people shit for being weebs, furries, etc. etc. Feels skeezy and moralistic. One of my favourite things about the Linux community is how openly eccentric so many people are. Even if it isn’t my aesthetic it’s way less contrived than the bland wastelands that corporate culture generates.
It wasn’t really relevant to your question, but you do you, weeb OP.
Gatekeeping (communication) Gatekeeping is the process through which information is filtered for dissemination, whether for publication, broadcasting, the Internet, or some other mode of communication.
Linking to upstream source instead of copying answer that will be outdated is neither gatekeeping nor “RTFM toxicity”
I never said rtfm is toxic but it is well known how toxic arch community used to be. Im very much referring to that.
That is certainly one use of the word gatekeeping. Another common use of the word is:
“when someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity”.
You got it mixed up. I am not restricting one to let others in. Being a creep is not normal and it isn’t gatekeeping to say cosplaying little girls is not normal.
And all the down votes prove how much this is normalized in linux communuty which gets us all bad rep.
What you are saying is toxic communities that reply RTFM to every question like arch or gentoo.
Im active on arch communities and i’ve never seen this kind of message, most of the time they give you a hyperlink to a specific chapter of the manual so you know exactly how to fix your issue, not just copy pasta.
Windows is more documented. Not better but more.
Not at all but ok.
For your first paragraph, try arch discord and for the second ever used a search engine or just youtube? Windows is way more documented. Not necessarily by Microsoft but by the absolute waste community.
Windows is way more documented. Not necessarily by Microsoft but by the absolute waste community.
Kinda hard to provide a full documentation of a os as a particular when you have absolutely no control on it. Also there’s plenty of “windows tutorial” that are either wrong or out of date, while in Arch or most closely Linux there’s things that still remain the same years later.
Windows is way more documented. Not necessarily by Microsoft but by the absolute waste community.
If I had a nickle for every BSOD error code I researched only to find “have you tried running
sfc /scannow? What about a refresh? You tried both and nothing worked? Just reinstall!”More documented my ass. Linux at least tells me what’s wrong. “No space left on device” or “missing dependency” is way better than “Error code 0x0000007e”
Jup, Im having an NTP issue on my win10 machine If you search for it you find the same 5 “solutions” from dozens of content farms.
have you tried running
sfc /scannow?To be fair this is kinda “did you try to reboot?” kind of answer. Stupid, but effective.
Just reinstall!
IT’S TIME TO REINSTALL ШINDOWS! This is why I love Linux community, especially Gentoo. Reinstalling system is rarely considered to be valid answer.
Anime fans, despite counterintuitiveness, have greater average IQ that not anime fans.
Lol source pls
Personal experience. Go search for linux users among football fans. Both footballs.
That’s a terrible comparison
Ok. Marvel fans then.
Ok that makes more sense, I see your point
maybe it’s a good thing these blind haters of anime stuff aren’t nearby
I’ve played this game every year since 1998, and each year I try a wider range of distros. Long story short, EndeavourOS is the first distro that worked reliably and has by far the best support resources.
