There is nothing more cringe than seeing americans debating wheter they’re fascist or not due to X or Y politician rhetoric when they have been dropping bombs abroad for their entire existence.
I’m not American but there’s so many socialists on here refusing to vote for the lesser evil because they don’t offer the right candidates and advocating revolution.
why not take a page from the right’s clearly successful playbook and vote more in local politics and primaries. Maga managed to turn the republicans into exactly what they wanted this way, but the American left just sits there waiting for someone to start a revolution.
well I understand it might be late now and elections might not do much going forward, but jesus it’s like the only option you guys saw is voting for whoever the parties put toward or revolution.
Stupid seppo propaganda because they don’t know what the fuck democracy is. Dumb cunts. Enjoy your fascist dictatorship losers.
“Muh (western) democracy!” cries the lib that would remain unaffected had people not pointed out its effects, for example, on people’s day-to-day lives outside the fucking empire.
“Remain resolute and steadfast in the belief of liberalism. Trust and believe in the system!” as the lib gets side-eyed by everyone else that understands the libs platitudes are directed towards those that stand to benefit from the empire’s wrath, like suburbanite libs, or for the case of Europe, the original libs that started the spread of the “cancer” they swear was started by an orange peel, as if to pretend history started not too long ago.
It is almost like you didn’t understand the meme and can’t read then write the absolute dumbest comment in the thread, congratulations moron.
It’s fucking childish. Like a spoiled toddler who doesn’t get their way so throws a tantrum and lies on the ground screaming.
The seppos fought a war to preserve slavery. The politics gets dragged to the right because on the whole they are an abhorrent, damaged, immoral society. They have massive incarceration, capital punishment, don’t act to prevent mass shootings, let people die of preventable causes, don’t have fair wages. They are ignorant about everything including socialism. Their media is fucking awful.
Yet it is the fault of their center-right political party for following the votes? They are where they need to be to get half the votes and no further. There are some shit people in the US Dems for sure. But its a reflection of a shit society. There aren’t millions on the streets demanding a shift to the left and they aren’t voting in primaries or trying to reform the political system.
Democrats commit genocide and pretend to be sad about it. Republicans commit genocide and post the 🤣 emoji
Democrats commit genocide and post the🙏 emoji
Republicans commit genocide and post the 🤣 emoji
Dear Liberals,
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I am so glad I can’t see the bullshit from lemmy.world on my server
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Your economic system guarantees fascism. You can’t vote your way out of it. Capitalist modes of production inevitably concentrate power and lead to fascism. It is unavoidable.
it was nice talking at you too hamid
do you still live in Iran?
just wanted to let you know the top comment was in opposition to your opinion
you seem to have defederated from us so maybe your instance and ones like it should defederate completely to make your life easier
actually this time it’ll be different, we just won’t have another crisis of capitalism that requires the stamping out of revolutionaries
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gotta say, I’m extremely glad .world defederated from Hexbear. viewing this thread over here is night and day from looking at it on .ml and seeing The Smartest People in The Room say "ahh, so you just support trump then, got it
"I’ll never understand why those people quit reddit. What could their problem be with it?
Reddits just not their favorite flavor of boot anymore. They want federated boots.
They just have to infect every corner of everything with neoliberal garbage. Good thing they’re losing the war
not the only war they’re losing lmao
LOL I’m thinking the same thing, I looked at it logged on out .ml and its chock full of fantasy thinking
if I can’t criticize Dems before the election (that just ends up supporting trump) and I can’t criticize Dems after the election (that just ends up supporting trump), when CAN I criticize them? it seems like they just don’t want me criticizing them at all!!
Here’s the neat part, we’re not allowed any criticism to the Dems! As it’s always election season or post election season.
So there’s no time, just blindly accept who the DNC put forward without listening to the people they say they like!
What I learned from the memes I posted is that liberals just want a single party state
That would be an improvement. They want to take breaks from power by having a fascist party to tag team with
But not in a way that they would weild power and do any good for anyone. They want the American project to go on unimpeded but also for everyone to shut up about it.
Remember when everyone was terrified of ron desantis because he was “as evil as trump but a lot smarter”?
It’s a great way to plan for when Trump dies and libs need to scold people all over again.
I would still take blocking progress to the left over concentration camps every time
So yeah, if you think bith sides are the same, then I guess it doesnt matter who won. We probably would be here with tarrifs and camps and a dictatorship, but just with Harris.
The Democratic party is the Graveyard of Social Movements
Before you reply to me directly please understand:
- The US overthrew democracy in the country I am from
- The US installed a fascist king with secret police that terrorized my family
- Once kicked out the US supported a dictator in the neighboring country where the other half of my family lived
- The US funded both sides of a war between my country and the neighboring one that led to mass civilian deaths, one side directly by giving a dictator weapons and cash and the other side clandestinely thru laundering money by selling drugs in Latin America
- Once they lost that war turned on the dictator in the neighboring country and invented reasons to illegally invade. Twice
- Toppled the regime and left a power vacuum that consumed all my family that lived there for literally hundreds of years.
- Created material conditions in the country my family is from that forced them to leave or die
You Americans are not the good guys, your country and government is evil to its core.
Here is an example of a successful third party in a 2 party FPTP voting system that people keep insisting is impossible in the US because “muh RCV required”
I mean… I’m not in love with the idea of “blocking movement to the left”, but I sure as fuck would take that over the freespin to the right we are on for now. Like, I get that Dem’s need to step their game way the fuck up because you don’t win elections by being the “second worst choice”… but still. If we didn’t want accelerated fascism…
You didn’t have a choice, the economic system in the US concentrates power in the hand of people with money and they are fascists. If it wasn’t 2024 it would be 2028 after 4 years of congressional stalling. The path the US is on is predetermined, they don’t have to fix every election to the vote, they fix a percentage of them over the course of decades to push the policy to the right.
You’re not wrong. But if I had cancer, and a doctor gave me a way to delay the inevitable, I would take it. Maybe it can’t be fixed, maybe it’s totally fubar. But I don’t have it in me to just give up and willingly let people suffer without a fight.
But I don’t have it in me to just give up and willingly let people suffer without a fight.
Unless those people are Palestinian, then fuck 'em.
I get why you are pissed off, and have every right to be. How both parties of the American government have treated the Palestinian genocide is beyond reprehensible, immoral, inhumane, and frankly disgusting. And that is only a small slice of the harm caused by the US across the globe. All of which I condemn wholeheartedly.
But Trump is actively making it harder for anyone to help slow, stop, or otherwise prevent additional unnecessary death and suffering. So while yes, the genocide would have continued under the Dems, there may yet have been innocent lives that could have been saved that will now be lost. When faced with saving 1 out of a 100, or 0, I believe that 1 life is worth saving. I even have the audacity to hope we could have saved more than just 1 out of 100.
I don’t intend to give up on anyone, but I also have to accept that my power is limited. So doing what I can to prevent the genocide from accelerating, in the hopes that it gives even one more child a chance to escape, is worth it to me. Maybe it isn’t the best strategy, but it is the best I could do with my time and ability to affect change to the best of my knowledge. I certainly would have preferred if the US electorate had united to solve these problems long ago, and we could have used our collective force for unambiguous good, but when even my parents won’t listen to me on the changes I think the country needs to make, steering the entire country in the right direction is beyond me at this point. Despite that fact, I still can’t just bury my head in the sand and say “sorry Palestinian child, I could have done everything in my power, kicking and screaming, to give you a snowballs chance in hell. But instead I felt it was more important to give up to the feelings of despair”.
I get that a lot of folks, yourself included I assume(?), believe that abstaining from voting or voting 3rd party would send a strong message that we will not be complicit in the countries support of a genocidal regime. And I can see why that would be your strategy, maybe in 100+ years that kind of strategy would actually amount to more saved lives, I can’t say for sure. But what I do know is that in the short term, our collective inability to keep Trump out of office has made many things worse for many people, minority groups most of all, and has made sure that the Palestinian genocide has only accelerated with the enthusiastic support of the US government under the Trump administration.
But with all that said, I hope that you haven’t given up either, and are with me in doing the best you can to help anyone you can to the best of your abilities.
and has made sure that the Palestinian genocide has only accelerated with the enthusiastic support of the US government under the Trump administration.
No, he hasn’t. The genocide was every bit as “accelerated” and the supporting of the US government every bit as enthusiastic under the Democrats, and you only think otherwise because liberals were engaging in mass genocide denial and apologia when it was their team doing it. In this sense, Trump has been better for Palestine, because at least now liberals are actually acknowledging what’s happening.
This also torpedoes the “lesser evil” argument for me, because how can I trust people to vote lesser evil when they won’t be honest with themselves about the evil the democrats were doing?
Blocking movement to the left is why you’re left with a rightward trend. Not just because the right itself “moves right” but because Dems’ political nature breeds false consciousness and confused disillusionment. Dems promise basic things like a student debt jubilee and then do a little weak attempt at it. So then people leave them behind. Even worse, Dems help create the degrading conditions that provokes an anti-liberal backlash (liberalism being the dominant ideology of capitalism, not just US Dems), and then Dems work their hardest to fight the associated leftward shift. But not the right: their radicals are useful for crushing that new left, as the left is anticapitalist.
Most importantly, the bourgeoisie electoral system provides an illusion of control. You don’t actually choose the lesset evil. You just throw in a vote for candidates preselected for you by capital and the party (a party in which you have no say) who will never actually be able to fight the right or adopt anticapitalist positions, and will therefore never be left. You, and the people, are not in control in this scenario. This scenario just provides consent for what capital wanted anyways, just with two different flavors: genocidal fascism with a good PR team for the theoretically empathetic and genocidal fascism with an okay PR team for braying hogs.
Up until the moment we have enough confirmed support for a progressive movement, status quo is a hell of a lot better than accelerated fascism; if only to buy more time to build the aforementioned progressive support. I’m all for actual leftward movement, but gambling on unconfirmed support is stupid. Even the liberals understand that, in their sports-team monkey brain.
The left has no plan sufficient to deal with this. I hear vague rumblings about strikes and revolutions and the power of the working class united, but the working class isn’t united yet. There is no organized, validated plan to effect that revolution. There’s no leftist Project 2025. That’s a natural consequence of the commendable independence of leftists, but it has the unfortunate consequence of being tactically untenable. The right uniform under the banner of their dictator, the left squabbles about trivialities.
It’s not that I wish it to be so; I would vastly prefer the left to have a functional plan to secure power. But it is the reality; I see neither such a lab, nor the necessary organization to implement such a plan. That’s why we vote lesser evil. We strive for the stationary phase of the ratchet to avoid the freewheeling phase, because we don’t yet have the organized strength to break the pawl from its housing.
Once we have that organized strength, and not sooner, we can break the pawl. Sooner, and the ratchet spins freely to the right.
And how’s that working out for you?
A bunch of shortsighted cosplayers with no sense of praxis or political literacy protested the do-nothing Dems and we got the freewheeling fascism MAGAs. How’s that working out for you? How’s the glorious revolution coming?
So it’s not working then?
But I assume you’re going to keep doing it anyway. All while continuing to accuse other people of being short sited with no sense of praxis.
Flagrant hypocrisy! This was your plan, not mine. How’s it working? Did a third party win? Did we end the genocide in Gaza yet? Don’t equate your plan’s failure with our recognition that it failed. You gambled, and this is what we get. Own it, maybe learn something about implementation.
Yup, looks like I was correct; you are going to keep doing it anyway, while desperately projecting your own failure onto others.
Keep up the “I’m rubber you’re glue” act buddy, it’s age appropriate. I wanted Trump to lose, you wanted Harris to lose. You got your wish, this is on you. Or keep blaming everyone else who tried to warn you that it was a stupid idea, how dare they point out the glaring flaws in your strategy. Let’s see if that makes a leftist plan materialize.
You can always count on @[email protected] to get most rabbid libs stirred up and face their own contradictions (without taking away any insights from the posts themselves anyway lol)…
Literally every post that just puts the quiet part loud upsets them, lol. Please keep it up, love to see it.
Surely this means we just aren’t voting hard enough
Clearly, the answer is to go the way of the Revolutionary Government Junta of El Salvador and make voting compulsory on pain of death. I’m sure that if centrists, neoclassical liberals, and white moderates watched Oliver Stone’s Salvador, they’d think that that system is a great idea. If anything, they’d say that summarily executing people for lacking a voter permit is being too nice to them.
90 million people didn’t vote at all. Trump won with 77 million votes. 13 million more people did nothing than all the people that voted for Trump.
Those 90 million people are more correct about the nature of US electoral politics than any Dem voter.
So, not any different from any other presidential election in the USA?
There were 3 million fewer voters than in 2020. This was the most advertised election in US history, and more people sat out.
“Didn’t vote” always beats out the votes for either candidate, though. A small downward shift in the numbers is probably the fault of Democrats dividing their own base by endorsing genocide.
Yup. According to polls, the number one reason people abstained or voted third-party was Biden/Harris handling of Gaza. It’s either an ignorant or arrogant choice, depending on their awareness of Trump’s sociopathy and unwavering support of Netanyahu.
It wasn’t a small downward shift though. It was greater than the amount Harris lost by, if you count the increase in third-party votes.
Only an American could describe opposition to genocide as “ignorant or arrogant”
Hey now, that’s not fair.
Israelis and Boers would say that, too. And some Germans, still, believe it or not.
There was no opposition to genocide. That would be the ignorant justification.
The choice was between genocide, and genocide with fascism. Knowing that, and choosing to do nothing so you feel better, is arrogant.
I agree. Whether it was ignorance or arrogance, the Democrats are entirely responsible for driving so many people away from the polls and squandering what could otherwise have been a shoe-in for Harris.
Or dumbasses are responsible for the fascist takeover here.
Dems aren’t great but it you couldn’t be convinced to vote here it’s not on them.
But yeah, keep making excuses for lazy people not doing their civic duty. It’s working out great.
I think in biden’s first election the “didn’t vote” category was beaten.
This is a bit of an oversimplification. Actually, the Democrats deliberately run a weak campaign while Russian botfarms tell the left not to vote for the Democrats. And that’s how movement to the left is prevented.
Fuck it, I’m gonna blame foreigners even more!
Rupert Murdoch is responsible for most of the fascist propaganda.
Benjamin Netanyahu has been corrupting the Democrats and helped lose the election for them.
Elon Musk is destroying the country, in a bad way.
Adolf Hitler inspired MAGA to be as awful as they are.
White people should never have invaded Turtle Island, that’s the cause of all America’s problems today.
Rupert Murdoch and Elon Musk are both American citizens. I see that blueMAGA has reached the same point as their red counterparts in thinking that even naturalised citizens are foreigners.
But yes, anything to avoid accepting Americas problems could have domestic origins.
Were Elon and Rupert accepted by the tribal governments of the regions where they live? Or were they “naturalised” by the fascist occupiers whose authority you’re legitimising?
Oh, you literally are saying naturalised citizens are foreigners.
You must be a big fan of Trump’s deportations.
No, I don’t think fascists who take over the government should be deported. I think they should be executed. What’s with your soft stance on Nazi billionaires?
Oh ok, so you think Trump doesn’t go far enough and that he should be executing naturalised citizens for being foreign.
blueMAGA doesn’t exist
It’s here in this very thread
Democrat partisans are not comparable to the MAGA movement
Different colors, different presentation, same fucking ideology.
Why? They’ve basically adopted most of the MAGA movements ideology, just with the parties switched and a different foreign scapegoat.
Classic BlueAnon Russiagate conspiracy theory.
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Matt Taibbi: WMD, Part II: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
