Cocaine "is no worse than whiskey" and is only illegal because it comes from Latin America, said Colombian President Gustavo Petro, whose nation is the world's biggest cocaine producer and exporter.
I have no strong opinion for/against legalizing cocaine, but your statements don’t seem to align with the literature I’ve read on the lethal dose of alcohol vs cocaine - which I’ve always seen list alcohol as worse.
For example the chart below which measures the dose required for an active dose vs a lethal dose as a ratio - alcohol is worse.
Due to its intense and immediate effects on the brain’s reward system, cocaine comes with a very high risk of addiction.
This is a very well established fact in what research shows about dependency. There is absolutely NO WAY cocaine is only slightly higher than alcohol in dependency potential.
It’s also one of the things that make smoking such a strong dependency.
Also both LSD and Psilocybin seem dead wrong from what I know. Both are advised to ONLY take when you are monitored by a sober person. And that’s not because of how “innocent” they are.
LSD and psilocybin are non-lethal and do not develop physical dependencies. Youd have to take and insane amount to die. You are advised to be watched if you are new to the drugs as they are HIGHLY mind altering. It’s not like alcohol or weed, your perception of things completely change. An experienced user is fine on a standard dose alone. But that’s not what LD-50 measures anyway, it deals with direct toxicity. Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.
OK but they are highly dangerous none the less. I know (2nd hand) of someone who became dependent using it only once!!
Despite warnings not to use it unmonitored, and only once per year.
Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.
LSD is non-habit forming for three reasons. 1) you pretty much gain an immediate and temporary tolerance. 2) the trips are so intense, abusing it everyday probably hints to you having some mental disorder instead of some dependency. They can be exhausting. 3) it’s not physically addictive, your body will not form a dependency on it, in fact it’s processed out of the brain with minutes to hours of consumption even if its effects last for much longer.
I’m sorry, but there are magnitudes of difference between scientific studies and secondhand anecdotes. We should base public policy on only one of these (hint: it’s not the anecdotes)
I know (2nd hand) of someone who became dependent using it only once!!
???
You know someone who is addicted to shrooms/LSD?
I’ve only done shrooms, but it’s not really a thing where you can just “go on with your day.” I have done all of my trips solo as well - not something I would recommend to others, but it’s possible to prepare a safe environment with the kinds of things needed to distract from “bad trips.”
It’s very hard to imagine what being addicted to LSD/shrooms would look like - unless you’re microdosing, it’s a “trip” which takes a lot out of you. Iirc even medically the effects are lessened if you don’t wait long enough between doses. You don’t get euphoria, you get something a lot more complicated. It’s not really the kind of experience one gets “addicted” to in the same way - not chemically and I don’t think psychologically.
Everyone should check out Erowid and unlearn the DARE hysteria.
The problem is, the chart’s too scientific / technical to properly convey real world data to common people for what we’re talking about; Not to mention look at the scale in that thing. About halfway through it goes from logarithmic back to non logarithmic.
What were realistically trying to gauge is based on common purchasable amounts, what’s the difference between pleasure and LD50.
You’re more likely to die from water toxicity than LD50 of beer.
You’re more likely to die from suffocation on your own vomit than alcohol poisoning from a large bottle of spirits.
A lot of places refuse to sell pure grain alcohol because it is dangerous.
The chart has nicotine way up there too but you can hardly get enough of that to cause any damage directly.
Cocaine’s safety is largely dependent upon delivery methods. Going up the nose is probably relatively safe in the short term.
Another problem with the safety behind cocaine is it getting cut with more dangerous drugs. Which arguably legalizing would help with.
I think the biggest problem is that alcohol is that it is such an effective depressant. People use it to cope instead of getting proper treatment, then go about their lives trying to operate heavy equipment and coexist with people that are functioning perfectly well.
I know one person that had a heart attack and burned out from coke, But I know lots of people that have died from alcohol and paired driving walking and even one guy that just fell off a couch smashed his head on a coffee table and died. Then again confirmation bias I know maybe a dozen people that do coke.
I have no strong opinion for/against legalizing cocaine, but your statements don’t seem to align with the literature I’ve read on the lethal dose of alcohol vs cocaine - which I’ve always seen list alcohol as worse.
For example the chart below which measures the dose required for an active dose vs a lethal dose as a ratio - alcohol is worse.
Source listed here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence.svg
That chart is simply wrong:
https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/
This is a very well established fact in what research shows about dependency. There is absolutely NO WAY cocaine is only slightly higher than alcohol in dependency potential.
It’s also one of the things that make smoking such a strong dependency.
Also both LSD and Psilocybin seem dead wrong from what I know. Both are advised to ONLY take when you are monitored by a sober person. And that’s not because of how “innocent” they are.
LSD and psilocybin are non-lethal and do not develop physical dependencies. Youd have to take and insane amount to die. You are advised to be watched if you are new to the drugs as they are HIGHLY mind altering. It’s not like alcohol or weed, your perception of things completely change. An experienced user is fine on a standard dose alone. But that’s not what LD-50 measures anyway, it deals with direct toxicity. Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.
OK but they are highly dangerous none the less. I know (2nd hand) of someone who became dependent using it only once!!
Despite warnings not to use it unmonitored, and only once per year.
OK I get the point. 😋
LSD is non-habit forming for three reasons. 1) you pretty much gain an immediate and temporary tolerance. 2) the trips are so intense, abusing it everyday probably hints to you having some mental disorder instead of some dependency. They can be exhausting. 3) it’s not physically addictive, your body will not form a dependency on it, in fact it’s processed out of the brain with minutes to hours of consumption even if its effects last for much longer.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4910402/
Thanks, the more you know. 👍
I’m sorry, but there are magnitudes of difference between scientific studies and secondhand anecdotes. We should base public policy on only one of these (hint: it’s not the anecdotes)
True.
???
You know someone who is addicted to shrooms/LSD?
I’ve only done shrooms, but it’s not really a thing where you can just “go on with your day.” I have done all of my trips solo as well - not something I would recommend to others, but it’s possible to prepare a safe environment with the kinds of things needed to distract from “bad trips.”
It’s very hard to imagine what being addicted to LSD/shrooms would look like - unless you’re microdosing, it’s a “trip” which takes a lot out of you. Iirc even medically the effects are lessened if you don’t wait long enough between doses. You don’t get euphoria, you get something a lot more complicated. It’s not really the kind of experience one gets “addicted” to in the same way - not chemically and I don’t think psychologically.
Everyone should check out Erowid and unlearn the DARE hysteria.
IDK what that is.
The problem is, the chart’s too scientific / technical to properly convey real world data to common people for what we’re talking about; Not to mention look at the scale in that thing. About halfway through it goes from logarithmic back to non logarithmic.
What were realistically trying to gauge is based on common purchasable amounts, what’s the difference between pleasure and LD50.
You’re more likely to die from water toxicity than LD50 of beer.
You’re more likely to die from suffocation on your own vomit than alcohol poisoning from a large bottle of spirits.
A lot of places refuse to sell pure grain alcohol because it is dangerous.
The chart has nicotine way up there too but you can hardly get enough of that to cause any damage directly.
Cocaine’s safety is largely dependent upon delivery methods. Going up the nose is probably relatively safe in the short term.
Another problem with the safety behind cocaine is it getting cut with more dangerous drugs. Which arguably legalizing would help with.
I think the biggest problem is that alcohol is that it is such an effective depressant. People use it to cope instead of getting proper treatment, then go about their lives trying to operate heavy equipment and coexist with people that are functioning perfectly well.
I know one person that had a heart attack and burned out from coke, But I know lots of people that have died from alcohol and paired driving walking and even one guy that just fell off a couch smashed his head on a coffee table and died. Then again confirmation bias I know maybe a dozen people that do coke.