For those veteran linux people, what was it like back in 90s? I did see and hear of Unix systems being available for use but I did not see much apart from old versions of Debian in use.

Were they prominent in education like universities? Was it mainly a hobbyist thing at the time compared to the business needs of 98, 95 and classic mac?

I ask this because I found out that some PC games I owned were apparently also on Linux even in CD format from a firm named Loki.

  • grue@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I got a copy of Turbolinux 6 (released in 2000) from somebody at a Hamfest, but couldn’t get it to install and run.

    Two years later, I was successful in running Debian and Gentoo.

  • zod000@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    I’m not sure I consider myself a “veteran” since I still used Windows most of the time back then, but I used it in the late 90s. This is all anecdotal from my perspective, but the late 90s Linux experience was pretty rough on the desktop side, especially installing it. I actually rarely saw Debian in use, it was usually Red Hat for the sane people or Slackware for the lunatics. There were a few notable Linux game ports, but generally speaking, gaming wasn’t something most people did or even expected to do in Linux. I think I had a small handful games that weren’t terminal roguelikes: Doom, Quake, Tux Racer, and Alpha Centauri ( this one might have been early 2000s, hard to recall ). I can’t say I personally saw anyone openly using it at the university level in almost any form when I attended, I saw a lot of Unix though. Everyone I knew that was using Linux was younger and did have a slightly hobbyist leaning, with the more serious people usually using OpenBSD or FreeBSD.

    • BrerChicken @lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I first used Linux in the late 90s, and it was just something that worked better on an older box. I installed Red Hat on an old 286 and the fun part was honestly getting it to work and learning about computers. Then one day I realized that I was spending all my free time working inside on this thing, but I was living on the water, in the Florida Keys, with access to boats and jet skis and pretty much anything. That had been my dream my whole life and all of a sudden I was living it. And I didn’t even have to be at work, right next door, until 10am. I was on a break from school then, and that’s actually what caused me to change my major from CS. I didn’t think it would be helpful to spend my whole life indoors!

      Now I’m a physics teacher and I sometimes teach my 9th graders how to use Python for simple things like graphing. I love my life and I’m really thankful I keot computers as a hobby rather than as my profession.

  • schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business
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    10 months ago

    It was prominent in smaller businesses that wanted or needed a Unix but weren’t going to pay what sun or IBM or HP and friends wanted for their hardware+software.

    It ate the proprietary Unix market awfully quickly and I don’t think anyone really misses it.

    For me, educational stuff was all windows with a small amount of macs and I don’t think I ever saw a Linux system in actual use anywhere.

    I used it on the desktop but that was super rare because hardware support was nowhere as good as now - even getting X up was a challenge (go read up on mode lines if you want some entertainment).

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nl
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      10 months ago

      For me, educational stuff was all windows with a small amount of macs and I don’t think I ever saw a Linux system in actual use anywhere.

      Linux systems started being common in CompSci schools around mid-90s, around the time LAMP took off (fun fact, Apache, MySQL and PHP were all launched in 1995).

      Previously in CompSci you’d get to use all kinds of UNIX servers. My uni still had Solaris servers with dumb terminals, and I got my first sysadmin certification on SCO.UNIX / OpenServer.

      • schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business
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        10 months ago

        I was doing english lit stuff in that era so what showed up on the tech side was a little different. Ended up spending my entire career actually in IT (25 years now ugh I’m old) because it turns out uh, there’s not any money in a english degree.

  • mortalic@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    This was me, you’re talking about me. 😂 In the 90’s Linux was barely getting started but slackware was probably the main distro everyone was focused on. That was the first one I ran across. This was probably late 90’s, I don’t remember when slack first came about though.

    By the time the 2000’s came around, it was basically a normal thing for people in college to have used or at least tried. Linux was in the vernacular, text books had references to it, and the famous lawsuit from SCO v IBM was in full swing. There were distro choices for days, including Gentoo which I spent literally a week getting everything compiled on an old Pentium only for it to not support some of the hardware and refuse to boot.

    There was a company I believe called VA Linux that declared that year to be the year of the Linux desktop. My memory might be faulty on this one.

    Loki gaming was a company that specialized in porting games to Linux, and they did a good job at it but couldn’t make money. I remember being super excited about them and did buy a few games. I was broke too so that was a real splurge for me. I feel like they launched in the 90’s (late) and crashed in the early 2000’s.

    • constantokra@lemmy.one
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      10 months ago

      I think you need to qualify that having used or tried Linux in college was normal in the 2000s for someone in computer science or engineering, or basically my fellow undiagnosed autistics and autistic adjacents. In my experience it was fairly normal in college for most people to have trouble operating a basic word processor, and they would not have had any idea what Linux was at all.

      • mortalic@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Maybe, but I took some business courses too and even some of them had at least tried a Linux distro. I think it was more widespread than just turbo nerds and cs majors. Hell one of the biggest Linux guys I knew was an anthropology major.

  • BrightCandle@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Linux was in use on some university machines although I lot of them were still running Sun hardware OS. The main distribution I used at the time was Slackware.

  • wewbull@feddit.uk
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    10 months ago

    The thing that sticks with me is video card support. Back then (before Nvidia, 3dfx, etc) you had VGA cards that had one of a number of chipsets on, but it would be paired with a video timing chip and a RAMDAC. Buying a card required knowing which combination of parts it used and which combinations had support in XFree86. Then writing the configuration required knowing the video timings supported by your monitor. Not just frequencies, but blanking periods and such like.

    EDID solved that last problem.

    • jqubed@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I remember a really smart, very nerdy family friend telling us about Linux around 1997/98 and this was the experience he described. It sounded interesting but also like a crazy amount of work.

            • schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business
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              10 months ago

              You can also install modern Linux on an old piece of hardware too! https://www.adelielinux.org/ is pretty shockingly compatible, back to a Pentium-class system. (A P166 was the oldest I’ve personally installed it on).

              I wouldn’t uh, say it was all that useful, but it’s still sitting on the retro computer pile doing retro computer stuff.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        10 months ago

        Weirdly, I think it all got me my first job. I interviewed at a graphics card manufacturer and the interviewer placed one of their cards on the table and said “tell me what’s on that card”.

        I picked it up and pointed out all the components because I knew them all by their part numbers that were written on them. I hadn’t seen them before, but I knew they were options in XFree86. Then add in that the regular array of chips was likely VRAM and the chips with the same logo on them as was above the door where the companies own video processors.

        I didn’t know how any of it worked, but he didn’t know that. All he saw was a fresh graduate that just effortlessly identified some quite esoteric components of a design he’d personally made.

  • mesa@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I got a disk of suse Linux from a library book. I put it on my laptop and it worked-ish.

    I didn’t know what partitions were so I messed up my laptop pretty bad. But I learned more in that little bit than my undergrad degree.

  • Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    10 months ago

    I went to college in 93, and they ran a Unix mainframe with thin clients connected to it in the computer labs.

    I didn’t really know much about any computers then, but I learned quick and had nerdy friends teach me a lot. Home computers ran DOS, but this fancy thing called Linux had entered the scene and nerds played with it.

    I remember it being a bear. My comp sci roommate did most of the work, but he’d dole out mini projects to me to help him out. You had to edit text files with your exact hardware parameters or else it wouldn’t work. Like resolutions, refresh rates, IRQs, mouse shit, printer shit - it was maddening. And then you’d compile that all for hours. And it always failed. Many hardware things just weren’t ever going to work.

    Eventually we got most things working and it was cool as beans. But it took weeks - seriously. We were able to act as a thin client to the mainframe and run programs right from our apartment instead of hauling ourselves to the computer lab. Interestingly, on Linux, that was the first time I had ever gotten a modem and a mouse working together. It was either/or before that.

    It was both simultaneously horrific and fantastic at the same time. By the time windows 95 rolled out, the Unix mainframe seemed old and archaic. All the cool kids were playing Warcraft 2 and duke nukem 3D.

  • Frater Mus@lemmy.sdf.org
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    10 months ago

    Was it mainly a hobbyist thing at the time

    Yes, I’d say so. Lots of tech geeks were playing with it but no Normals. Getting audio running was not always pleasant…

    • constantokra@lemmy.one
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      10 months ago

      I’m so divorced from normalcy I have no frame of reference. Do normal people who don’t do this stuff for a living use Linux now, outside handheld gaming devices? I figured they just used whatever came on whatever device they wanted to buy.

  • Shimitar@feddit.it
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    10 months ago

    Ah, Linux from scratch…

    Also, hardware was… Harder back then, on Linux (mostly modems).

    Beside that, software wise there was less stuff on Linux than today, so you had to check carefully you had what you needed.

    But I was already a Linux user, and a linux-only user at that.

      • cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de
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        10 months ago

        Is was those crappy winmodems that caused all the problems. They cheaped out on hardware, so you basically got a sound card. All of the work had to be done by the driver, which also put a lot of load on your CPU. Serial modems just worked since everything was done in hardware.

        • Quazatron@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I had erased that information from my memory. Also it took a long time for Linux to gain USB support, then a long time to get WIFI (also because of the cheap vendors that used windows drivers to do the heavy lifting). Yeah, it was a very uphill struggle, with Microsoft actively pushing against Linux (remember the ‘Linux is a virus’ narrative?) I’m amazed we made it this far.

      • Shimitar@feddit.it
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        10 months ago

        Well, only “real” modems… Those amazing piece of crap that offloaded hardware to the windows driver where… Questionable.

        And they started appearing around windows 95/98.

  • LeFantome@programming.dev
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    10 months ago

    Well, XFree86 ( before Xorg and before KMS ) was an adventure. I spent hours guessing the vertical and horizontal frequencies of my monitor trying to get decent resolutions.

    Other than that, Linux was way more work but “felt” powerful relative to OS options of the time. Windows was still crashy. The five of us that used OS/2 hated that it still had a lot of 16 bit under the hood. Linux was pure 32 bit.

    Later in the 90’s, you could run a handful of Windows apps on Linux and they seemed to run better on Linux. For example, file system operations were dramatically faster.

    And Linux was improving incredibly rapidly so it felt inevitable that it would outpace everything else.

    The reality though was that it was super limited and a pain in the ass. “Normal” people would never have put up with it. It did not run anything you wanted it to ( if you had apps you liked on Mac, Windows, OS/2, Amiga, NeXTstep, BeOS, or whatever else you were using ( there were of potential options at the time ). But even for the pure UNIX and POSIX stuff, it was hard.

    Obviously installation was technical and complex. And everything was a hodge-podge of independently developed software. “Usability” was not a thing. Ubuntu was not release until 2004.

    Linux back then was a lot of hitting FTP sites to download software that you would build yourself from source. Stuff could be anywhere on the Internet and your connection was probably slow. And it was dependency hell so you would be building a lot of software just to be able to build the software you want. And there was a decent chance that applications would disagree about what dependencies they needed ( like versions ). Or the config files would be expected in a different location. Or the build system could not find the required libraries because they were not where the Makefile was looking for them.

    Linux in the 90’s had no package management. This is maybe the biggest difference between Linux then and Linux now. When package management finally arrived, it came in two stages. First, came packages but you were still grabbing them individually from FTP. Second came the package manager which handled dependencies and retrieval.

    The most popular Linux in the mid to late 90’s was Red Hat. This was before RHEL and before Fedora. There was just “Red Hat Linux”. Red Hat featured RPMs ( packages ) but you were still installing them and any required dependencies yourself at the command line. YUM ( precursor to NRF ) was not added until Fedora Core 1 was release in 2003!

    APT ( apt-get ) was not added to Debian until 1998.

    And all of this meant that every Linux system ( not distro — individual computer ) was a unique snowflake. No two were alike. So bundling binary software to work on “Linux” was a real horror-show. People like Loki gave it a good run but I cannot imagine the pain they went through. To make matters worse, the Linux “community” was almost entirely people that had self-selected to give up pre-packaged software and to trade sweat-equity for paying for stuff. Getting large number of people to give you money for software was hard. I mean, as far as we have come, that is still harder on Linux than on Windows or macOS.

    You can download early Debian or Red Hat distros today if you want to experience it for yourself. That said, even the world of hardware has changed. You will probably not be wrestling IRQs to get sound or networking running on modern hardware or in a VM. Your BIOS will probably not be buggy. You will have VESA at least and not be stuck on VGA. But all of that was just “computing” in the 90’s and the Windows crowd had the same problems.

    One 90s hardware quirk was “Windows” printers or modems though where the firmware was half implanted in Windows drivers. This was because the hardware was too limited or too dumb to work on its own and to save money your computer would do some of the work. Good luck having Linux support for those though.

    Even without trying old distros, just try to go a few days on you current Linux distro without using apt, nrf, pacman, zypper, the GUI App Store, or what have you. Imagine never being able to use those tools again. What would that be like?

    Finally, on my much, much slower 90’s PC, I compiled my own kernel all the time. Honestly multiple times per month I would guess. Compiling new kernels was a significant fraction of where my computing resources went at the time. I cannot remember the last time I compiled a kernel.

    It was a different world.

    When Linus from LTT tried Linux not that long ago ( he wanted to game ), he commented that he felt like he was playing “with” his computer instead of playing “on” his computer. That comment still describes Linux to some extent but it really, really captures Linux in the 90’s.

  • kbal@fedia.io
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    10 months ago

    My linux experience:

    1993 - Hey, there’s a new Unix-like thing for the PC. You can check it out down at the university computer club.

    1994 - Wow, I finally managed to get X running

    1996 - It was somewhat normal for more nerdy software developers to run linux full-time on their desktop at work.

    1998 - Linux was taking over servers to the point where you rarely saw Solaris, HP-UX, AIX around any more.

    2002 - Everyone agreed that linux was pretty much ready to take over the desktop as well.