As an EU citizen, we want good relations with USA, It’s 100% Trump and Musk who are ruining it.
They are literally insane, and USA needs to remove them. Unless they do, I guess we can’t be friends anymore.
Trump got about the same number of votes this time as he did in the previous election (marginally less, I believe).
It makes little difference to point out, but it’s good to remember that the Dems are a bunch of feckless corporate shills who lost the support of their voters, and about a third to half the country simply doesn’t vote.
Trump is a symptom and the end result of deeply systemic and cultural issues here, and as an American, I hope you guys make it hurt. Maybe then we’ll wake up to the problems here. I doubt it, but at least the economic collapse here will hopefully spare the rest of the world from a dementia patient with daddy Putin’s leash on his collar swinging the biggest military budget in the world around like he’s got something to compensate for.
The third of the people who didn’t vote had Trump previous to realize what he’d do and still said “Meh, either’s fine with me.” They’re complicit.
And 2. I get so fucking sick and tired of the “Dems are corporate shills” when the left can’t be faffed to show up at voting. I don’t mean the 4 year presidential votes. I mean the yearly all the way to the local shit. You want to know how we got Trump? Because the ultra-right made it a point to get in bed with the republicans and beat down doors to tell people to vote to secure the supreme court, to secure state positions, to secure fucking school board positions.
I have never met someone who had interest in Republicans who didn’t think they paid attention to the news. It may be Fox and Infowars but they paid some attention. If I had a nickle for every individual who was interested in left wing ideals but told me “I don’t know. I don’t like politics” I’d have enough to afford a plane ticket out of this fucking country.
Gonna be honest, i haven’t agreed with that in 20 years, on account that the US can and will fuck over any ally it has if that has the slightest marginal gain for them. Any time the wind blows a different way, the US will throw all their allies under the bus. They are a greedy nation and poor allies.
They’ve spied on the EU, they applied tariffs on the EU, they have threatened the EU with invasion after we helped them in their fruitless war in the middle east and had to deal with the migrant crises that resulted from it basically alone ? Now we have to deal with meddling in democratic elections? Never again, i say. We go at it alone, we trade, but that’s it.
They were great help when Yugoslavia broke down.
They were also great help, although with some hold backs to help Ukraine, it’s absolutely nonsense to say otherwise.
The basis for the Europe-USA friendship is also that USA helped enormously way beyond any European country’s ability in WW2. And the Americans actually secured freedom for western Europe, very contrary to the part that Soviet Union occupied.
USA was also great aid for Europe when the Soviet collapsed, making for instance Poland one of the countries where USA was most popular after that.
Unfortunately cracks began to appear already with Bush Jr. and the false intelligence on Iraq. And obviously under Trump who threatened to not respect article 5. And obviously now where Trump behaves like a mafia boss.
But there is no doubt we’d prefer normal relations restored, where USA and allies cooperate on real issues around the world.
Unfortunately Trump makes normal relations impossible.
Hard disagree that we’re better off with relations restored. Even if Trump was not in the white house, the current internal political situation in the US is a powder keg ripe for abuse.
The US helped Europe in post war but it made enormous amounts of money with it. Why do you think in the 50s and onward Americans had a massive a massive golden age of prosperity where you could support a full household on a highschool diploma which led to a massive baby boom ? It was all piggybacking on the massive loans Europe took to rebuild itself.
Did they have to do it ? No, but if you know anything about Americans is that they love money. They didn’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts or because they feel Europe is such an important ally, they did it purely and exclusively for money. They wanted money and Europe could give it. When matters of money align, and we both stand to profit, no issues there - we should cooperate with Americans. But make no mistake, everything the US does is for its own benefit and nobody else’s and if they don’t stand to gain anything from cooperating, they will throw their allies under the bus first chance. Americans must be kept at arms length at all times.
They are not European allies, they have never been European allies, we just stood to gain together in the past. It was profit, pure and simple.
Yet no developed country with high taxation on high income earners and women in the workforce has ever managed to even come close to the success the US had back then. Something you see, for instance, in several wealthy European countries. No, that’s not why. They had an entire continent of developed but destroyed countries paying off humongous loans under the Marshall’s plan and similar investments thereafter.
As an EU citizen, we want good relations with USA, It’s 100% Trump and Musk who are ruining it.
They are literally insane, and USA needs to remove them. Unless they do, I guess we can’t be friends anymore.
Half of the voters voted for Trump, so no thanks, I don’t want to have good relations with the US. I want to isolate them as much as possible.
Half of the people who voted*
Trump got about the same number of votes this time as he did in the previous election (marginally less, I believe).
It makes little difference to point out, but it’s good to remember that the Dems are a bunch of feckless corporate shills who lost the support of their voters, and about a third to half the country simply doesn’t vote.
Trump is a symptom and the end result of deeply systemic and cultural issues here, and as an American, I hope you guys make it hurt. Maybe then we’ll wake up to the problems here. I doubt it, but at least the economic collapse here will hopefully spare the rest of the world from a dementia patient with daddy Putin’s leash on his collar swinging the biggest military budget in the world around like he’s got something to compensate for.
And 2. I get so fucking sick and tired of the “Dems are corporate shills” when the left can’t be faffed to show up at voting. I don’t mean the 4 year presidential votes. I mean the yearly all the way to the local shit. You want to know how we got Trump? Because the ultra-right made it a point to get in bed with the republicans and beat down doors to tell people to vote to secure the supreme court, to secure state positions, to secure fucking school board positions.
I have never met someone who had interest in Republicans who didn’t think they paid attention to the news. It may be Fox and Infowars but they paid some attention. If I had a nickle for every individual who was interested in left wing ideals but told me “I don’t know. I don’t like politics” I’d have enough to afford a plane ticket out of this fucking country.
Gonna be honest, i haven’t agreed with that in 20 years, on account that the US can and will fuck over any ally it has if that has the slightest marginal gain for them. Any time the wind blows a different way, the US will throw all their allies under the bus. They are a greedy nation and poor allies.
They’ve spied on the EU, they applied tariffs on the EU, they have threatened the EU with invasion after we helped them in their fruitless war in the middle east and had to deal with the migrant crises that resulted from it basically alone ? Now we have to deal with meddling in democratic elections? Never again, i say. We go at it alone, we trade, but that’s it.
They were great help when Yugoslavia broke down.
They were also great help, although with some hold backs to help Ukraine, it’s absolutely nonsense to say otherwise.
The basis for the Europe-USA friendship is also that USA helped enormously way beyond any European country’s ability in WW2. And the Americans actually secured freedom for western Europe, very contrary to the part that Soviet Union occupied.
USA was also great aid for Europe when the Soviet collapsed, making for instance Poland one of the countries where USA was most popular after that.
Unfortunately cracks began to appear already with Bush Jr. and the false intelligence on Iraq. And obviously under Trump who threatened to not respect article 5. And obviously now where Trump behaves like a mafia boss.
But there is no doubt we’d prefer normal relations restored, where USA and allies cooperate on real issues around the world.
Unfortunately Trump makes normal relations impossible.
Hard disagree that we’re better off with relations restored. Even if Trump was not in the white house, the current internal political situation in the US is a powder keg ripe for abuse.
The US helped Europe in post war but it made enormous amounts of money with it. Why do you think in the 50s and onward Americans had a massive a massive golden age of prosperity where you could support a full household on a highschool diploma which led to a massive baby boom ? It was all piggybacking on the massive loans Europe took to rebuild itself.
Did they have to do it ? No, but if you know anything about Americans is that they love money. They didn’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts or because they feel Europe is such an important ally, they did it purely and exclusively for money. They wanted money and Europe could give it. When matters of money align, and we both stand to profit, no issues there - we should cooperate with Americans. But make no mistake, everything the US does is for its own benefit and nobody else’s and if they don’t stand to gain anything from cooperating, they will throw their allies under the bus first chance. Americans must be kept at arms length at all times.
They are not European allies, they have never been European allies, we just stood to gain together in the past. It was profit, pure and simple.
Because the rich were taxed 90%, and women began to work during WW2 as part of the war effort, and kept doing it after.
Yet no developed country with high taxation on high income earners and women in the workforce has ever managed to even come close to the success the US had back then. Something you see, for instance, in several wealthy European countries. No, that’s not why. They had an entire continent of developed but destroyed countries paying off humongous loans under the Marshall’s plan and similar investments thereafter.