I have to get certifications as part of my job and because all of my coworkers and I keep failing these really hard tests, we aren’t allow to study during downtime on the clock. We were told to study on our own time.
Getting certs is part of what is required for me to get bigger raises and get promoted and all that jazz. I don’t want to use my personal time for this. None of the people who are in this predicament do.
I have a meeting in a few days to discuss goals and I need to figure out how to tell my boss that using my own time for work shit is unacceptable.
I really like this job other than this one aspect of it and I don’t want to make anyone mad, but I need to express my boundaries and all that
Based on what you said, these are not required for you to do your job, only for you to improve your position. It is not unreasonable for you to use personal time for self-improvement. It’s also not unreasonable for you to use company downtime for self-improvement.
Not just downtime. There should be room for training.
Employers aren’t obligated to invest in you, but then you know how much you should invest in them.
1000% this. Spending even an entire work-day to go attend training is part of being in the work force. I’d be spending my personal time dusting off my resume.
You know you’re allowed to print off a new copy
“Using my own time for work stuff is unacceptable to me, and I am prepared to quit this job and get a different one that doesn’t ask me to work off the clock if you press this matter.”
Don’t try to reason them into accepting your way of thinking, just state your position and what you’re willing to do to pursue it
Incidentally, if “I am prepared to quit this job” does not currently apply to you, you should not be having this conversation.
“Using my own time for work stuff is unacceptable to me. It was not enumerated in the job listing when I was hired that off-clock unpaid work was required to keep this job and
I am prepared to quit this job and get a different one that doesn’t ask me to work off the clock if you press this matterif the company terminates me for refusing to work unpaid off the clock I’d be happy to raise that with the Department of Labor for a case of wage theft.”FTFY
Now, understand in many jobs maintaining a level of knowledge is necessary, and skills age-out meaning they are no longer applicable to industry. If you don’t have these new certs, you may not be able to get hired somewhere else because they require the current industry knowledge. You’ll have to decide which battles you want to fight, and what you will do if the worst outcome affects you and you’re out of work. Would you be forced to study and pass those certs anyway just to be eligible in your industry? If so, you can work toward compromise with your current employer as a shorter and less painful path.
To this end, you can challenge them on not letting you study on the clock during downtime. If these certs are as critical as they claim, then why are downtime hours not usable for cert study?
I get that you guys are spelling things out for OP so they have an understanding of what their argument’s foundation is, but going into the conversation with language like “it was not enumerated” and vague threats of reporting them to the authorities is probably not the best approach if OP actually wants to keep the job (which it sounds like they do).
Those promotion and raise promises are often not kept, so get them laid out in writing. If getting certified is part of your job then you should get paid for it in time and money.
Educations tends to be off the clock. I wouldn’t expect them to let you work on schoolwork for a degree required for a promotion while on the clock either. My employer reimburses me for my continued education (CE) that’s required to keep my licenses, but it’s not something we get to work on during work.
This is ridiculous and not how most places function. Education benefits your employer and they get a ton of tax cuts and incentives. They even try to make you do it on your own time and get benefits like you had done it on their time. Don’t let them.
Obviously they can cause trouble and not everyone can find a new job so it’s a tough choice, but let’s not normalize it. CE is different, thats a degree and youre only getting reimbursed because they have a tax incentive to do so. If the business isn’t willing to invest in you they don’t have to, but then you know you should stop investing in them.
not how most places function
That hasn’t been my experience. Even places that pay for employees to get certified expect those employees to study on their own time unless they’re sent to formal training.
It depends on your job designation(and region tbh). Out of my personal experience in the states, If you are a “contractor” you are expected to pay for everything, but if you are an “employee” then the company is expected to pay for any additional training past what you brought to the table when you were hired. If they say that they are changing the job requirements and they now require you to get the next level license to continue your job, they must pay for that process, that is not something the employee is required to pay for.
Being said, it sounds like OP is being pushed a “if you want to be promoted you must do this” type of deal, which is completely fair as it’s an optional thing to gain more money, but you can’t push that as a requirement to keep your job without also putting yourself at risk of an employment case either under wage theft, improper dismissal or an unemployment claim if they did decide to fire the employee.
using my own time for work shit is unacceptable.
Drop the word “shit” and you got it.
I’d use the word “shit,” but I’ve already established a certain level of communication with my manager and colleagues.
Then you probably wouldn’t have to ask on Lemmy how to express your objections. But OP did; so no “shit”.
Had the same conversation with my boss, and I specifically asked him “Is this certificaton job related or is it just so someone can check a box on a spreadsheet somewhere? If it’s job related, I’m absolutely down for it, what does the new role entitle and what’s the increase in pay for it?”
Response? Silence.
What was the certification?
That was the weird part, it wasn’t any one specific certification, it was any 2nd certification in addition to the job related cert I already had.
Fuck you, pay me
If a stock broker or insurance actuary had this sort of opinion they would be making 50k not 300k. When else would they study for their exams and certs?
If I as a PhD candidate didn’t work on my own time I will never get my PhD.
This seems like a /antiwork terminally online position to have. I agree in only giving bosses what we are required but this is for you to succeed.
I know all of one insurance actuary, and she has a study budget both in euros and hours.
because all of my coworkers and I keep failing these really hard tests, we aren’t allow to study during downtime on the clock.
Well there’s your answer. It sounds like they are tired of making losing investments.
Have you tried telling them to Fuck oof?
Tell your boss that the time when you aren’t at work is the time when you do “the rest of my life.” Tell them that your schedule is already very full and that what free time you do have is for downtime for resting and recuperating from the things that keep you busy. Politely but firmly let them know that you need to pursue work during work time.
That’s a long way to say “I don’t know that I have availability on that schedule.”
That’s the line I used when it was suggested. My year clock started then, and I was out on time. They were surprised, but I included the email as part of my resignation.
I hate the idea of “personal” time. It doesn’t belong to my job by default. It’s all my personal time. If they want any of it they will need to pay.
FULLY AGREE.
I am lending my employer some of my personal time. Therefor if they want more, they need to pay for it. This ideology that you are owned by your company is shitty and needs to stop.
“I don’t feel it is in my personal benefit to spend my energy and time outside of work, chasing a end goal that will not favor me personally. This certificate was not a requirement for me being hired, and I am not being reimbursed for said spent time and energy. If this is something that the company is interested in pursuing, I am more than happy to continue working on it as long as I am reimbursed for my time. A chance at promotion with no compensation in current day, does not guarantee enough of a reward for it to be worth my time.”
Know your worth OP, companies will burn you time and time if they think they can. Don’t learn the hard way like I did, or my grandfather did (he did a masters degree fully out of pocket because there was an increase in pay involved + a massive bonus, the removed the bonus and halved the increase in pay the year he graduated). It’s a well known scam used by employers in specialized fields to avoid having to actually pay for training and certs.
Additionally you may want to note that if they try to say that you need to cert to stay at the company, mention that in that case it’s mandatory training and you are supposed to be paid for time spent, and if they refuse look into an employment lawyer for wage theft.
Continuous Professional Development (CPD) is a trait of professional careers. Do you think doctors, nurses, etc only study on work time?
If you’re not in such a professional field, discuss remuneration for doing it in your free time as the company will benefit. You need to figure out how much you want for a raise, and if things fall through remind them you’ll be more employable and you can go elsewhere after passing. Maybe even push for an early raise now to keep you as it seems they like you.
I don’t know about medical professionals, but Professional Engineers do, in fact, often get reimbursed by their company for the cost of earning their PDH credits.
Your time is your time. Work time or things related to work are work hours. I will die on that hill.
I’ve seen some good responses here, definitely take their advice.
