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This meme is pathetic and offensive.
Offensive to who?
Every lonely man who doesn’t fit the played out internet stereotype of an incel. You likely see several of them a day.
To say that being an asshole makes you lonely doesn’t mean that all lonely men are assholes.
I feel like that is not what op said
To the misogynists on Lemmy
I’m currently a stay at home husband who does all the cooking, cleaning and dishes. I never felt manlier and have never been so attractive to women (according to my wifes friends at least). Looking forward to our first child arriving soon.
I have plenty of single male friends who seem stuck in their early 20s (even though they’re approaching 40). Their only care in the world seem to be “the economy” (something they barely understand), and whatever the newest *-maxxing scam is being promoted on Instagram that will magically make women gravitate towards them. They’re all pretty good looking and mostly nice people. The main problem being that they’re cheapskates and won’t lift a finger for anything not directly benefitting themselves. They don’t know how to cook, and learning anything unrelated to their jobs is seen as a “waste of time”.
I’m very happy I didn’t get stuck in that sort of rut as I’ve seen how easy it was for my friends.
A lot of women find empathy sexy. The women who only go for alpha males are the ones you usually want to avoid.
Alpha male isn’t even a thing. Not even in nature. People who call themselves that are mostly delusional assholes no-one likes.
It’s kind of a thing in certain animals, but not wolves like originally claimed. The certain animals here being mostly primates, so it’s even more applicable.
That said, the politics of social primates are notoriously complex and many cultures have unique behaviors within the species, so there aren’t really any universal rules particularly among the most social groups.
TBH, Silverbacks are actually good role models: Big, bulky, sit around grooming the troupe, know everyone, emotionally support everyone, when someone wants to start a fight, intervenes, “You wanna fight? Yeah, fight me! Both of you at once, if need be!” – and then suddenly the others lost interest in fighting.
Proverbial gymbro speaking softly and carrying a big stick, far from a tyrant, you know the type. Chimpanzees are the closest to us, with warfare and everything. Bonobos are… well, they are what biologists start talking about when they want to get into your pants. Let’s just say there’s a reason you don’t see them in zoos, parents don’t want to hear kids asking those kinds of questions.
Isn’t it weird that for humans, sex is a private matter? Completely singular among all the animals. And that’s independent of social status, like a smaller sea lion seducing a female one while the big hunk de jure leading the pack isn’t looking, it’s universal. Even if sex is a group activity, then that group itself is putting up layers of privateness and propriety. Swinger clubs with fancy dress codes, doesn’t matter if you end up naked but you have to start out in suit and tie.
If a scientist would, today, discover humanity and describe their behaviour they’d be laughed out of any conference, “did you get your notes mixed up”. “Next thing you want to tell us camelopards are real”.
There is nothing universally sexier than knowing exactly who you are and being perfectly satisfied with it. Good for you, man. Congrats for the bun in the oven too. <3
I’m currently a stay at home husband who does all the cooking, cleaning and dishes.
Easy to throw stones when you’re not the one responsible for keeping the lights on.
Who’s throwing stones? These friends are clearly unhappy and only getting worse because of dumb shit on social media. I’d help them if they’d listen.
More men should read The will to change by bell hooks. Patriarchy hurts men in different ways than it does women, we are all oppressed by it, including gender-nonconforming individuals. Patriarchy stunts male emotional health and creates these unhealthy repressed feelings. Rather than blaming women, men should look towards the systems that impact our daily lives and how they force us into little boxes we don’t always fit neatly intk naturally, suffocating us and justifying the general subjugation of women.
this seems like a good application for LLM ddg llama3.3 “The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love” is a book written by bell hooks, published in 2004. The book explores the concept of masculinity and its impact on men and society. Here are some key points from the book:
- hooks argues that traditional masculinity is based on a patriarchal model that emphasizes dominance, control, and aggression, which can be harmful to both men and women.
- She contends that this model of masculinity is rooted in a fear of vulnerability, intimacy, and emotional expression, which can lead to violence, addiction, and other forms of destructive behavior.
- hooks suggests that men need to develop a more nuanced and inclusive understanding of masculinity, one that values emotions, relationships, and mutual respect.
- She also argues that men need to take responsibility for their own emotional and psychological well-being, rather than relying on women to care for them.
- The book explores the ways in which patriarchal culture perpetuates violence, racism, and homophobia, and how these systems of oppression intersect and reinforce one another.
- hooks emphasizes the importance of men engaging in feminist activism and working to dismantle patriarchal systems of power.
- She also highlights the need for men to develop healthy relationships with women, children, and other men, based on mutual respect, trust, and communication.
- Throughout the book, hooks draws on a range of sources, including psychology, sociology, philosophy, and personal experience, to create a rich and nuanced exploration of masculinity and its possibilities for transformation.
Overall, “The Will to Change” is a thought-provoking and deeply personal book that challenges readers to think critically about the ways in which masculinity is constructed and performed, and to imagine new possibilities for men and women to live together in greater equality and mutual respect.
- Since you’ve read it does the book also deal with mistake mismanagement? I think the root cause for male loneliness is societies pressure to not make any mistakes and cancel culture. Men don’t wanna be seen as creepy and therefore don’t even bother talking to women anymore since the standard of not being ugly, compared to tropes fueled by social media is unachievable.
hooks suggests that men need to develop a more nuanced and inclusive understanding of masculinity, one that values emotions, relationships, and mutual respect.
Yep, written by a woman. Replace that with “value traversing rivers on couches strapped to floats and having a blast with the pals” and you’ll get somewhere.
Valuing something already is an emotion so you’re being emotional about being emotional about something so, yeah, no. Go climb a tree, create a tasty recipe, fix a shoe. Shave the soap.
Appreciate the key points!
I haven’t read this one, but anything by bell hooks is a banger.
I liked it a lot! I know people talk about the patriarchy a lot, and thus a lot of what it puts forward isn’t “new,” but the depth hooks goes in on the various facets of patriarchy specifically really helps a lot.
I appreciate you taking the time to suggest steps for a better society. I followed the link and read what was available, but there were only a few pages until the index + the front and back cover. I’ll probably look into finding a full copy later. Thanks for thinking about us. <3
I'd like to share my personal story if that's ok. Wall of text incoming and only read if you genuinely want to.
I want to share this because I have an honest question from a place of wanting to be a better person. I realize this isn’t about me, but in order for me to be in service of people other than myself, it is necessary for me to understand some things. I’m respectfully requesting help with that, to you or those willing to educate.
The second part of the meme hits really close to home to me because it’s something lots of men are taught at a young age in a traumatic manner. In my case I can’t count the amount of times I was told to “be a man” or asked if I was “gonna cry like a girl” which could happen literally anywhere by anyone, especially caretakers.
I went to an all boys school. I vividly remember the father of one of my classmates coming to talk to the class when my classmate missed school one day. He begged. Literally, begged to the class to stop teasing and bullying his son because he was going to kill himself any day. This was the 8th grade and was not a one time thing. He was a sensitive kid and got teased for it. He got called the f word a lot in a place and time where coming out of the closet as sexually diverse was considered “valid” grounds for physical violence/abuse by most men. Verbal abuse at the very least.
I was a weird and sensitive kid myself and got teased and bullied as well, but never that much. Was really timid, awkward and shy, but I usually got away with not being beaten up all the time or being straight out emotionally tortured all day like some were, by letting other kids cheat off me. This got me “protection” from some bullies that sat next to me. When I think about how I felt back when I was a kid, all I can remember is fear and wanting to be invisible. Constant fear. I had a whole lot of anger too, but usually lashed out on myself alone. Too scared of everything and everyone to get angry at anyone but myself. My family setting wasn’t a picnic either, but that’s a different story.
Basically, any time anyone gave me any kind of attention, including my parents, I perceived it as a dangerous threatening situation that made me feel uneasy.
I realize most people have been wronged by one or more men in much worse ways. I’m sorry and those of us who have harmed or still harm have no excuse. I shared my story so you understood what became my responsibility and duty to unlearn and remedy to not continue the endless samsara of victimization. I genuinely have been putting in the work I’ve found useful to help me stop causing people harm. Have taken this very seriously for more than decade now.
Here’s my question, in honest good faith.
Do you understand that a book that is intended to be used as a blueprint for positive masculinity that begins by requiring men to “understand patriarchy” can feel, to some men, like when catholic missionaries went to “uncivilized cultures” and made sure everyone “understood the gospel” and was very clear about having original sin and being impure and them needing to be saved?
This is not a rhetoric device I want to use against you or anyone. I am requesting empathy and suggestions on how to deal with this. Like, do you understand that it feels like some people are telling us men that we are devoid of value or have no legitimacy as humans unless we adhere to a specific belief system or “treatment”? Do you have any advice or suggestions for us or idk can you offer insight?
I realize many broken people such as myself and my classmates can become full grown monsters and society should do something that avoids monsters being bred and to treat, lock or remove people that have become monsters.
I just want to know if you understand this, and if you do, my request is you please share your thoughts.
Having read your story, I think you’ll actually love what bell hooks has to say, here. When I said patriarchy affects men and women in different ways, your story is exactly what I mean. Patriarchy puts men into very narrow boxes of what is deemed “acceptable,” and destroys what is outside that boundary. Women are impacted more by patriarchy than men are, but The will to change is a call to action to liberate both women and men from its shackles. It’s a deeply empathetic work that touches on stories very similar to yours, not a condescending authority piece. hooks writes with a deep love and a desire for herself to grow as well, frequently she speaks of her own mistakes and negative feelings towards men such as her father, and how she came to forgive and love him.
Trust me, you’ll love this book by the sounds of it.
Thanks for reading. Gonna look it up right now.
No problem! As a pansexual man myself, who was often bullied relentlessly for being sensitive myself (I was closeted my whole life through schooling and am only recently coming out more), I never felt like hooks was invalidating my experience in any way.
This is missing the point it’s embarrassing how stupidly wrong and antagonising it
And then you will wonder why young men are misogynistic I guess. The answer is that you’re a fucking antagonising moron.
It is simple ragebait to farm engagement. It absolutely sucks that so many just believe this is how everything works.
People believe it because they’re bombarded with memes (like this one) on social media that push them towards believing it, and sometimes reposting it.
Social division pays. Social division kills.
Social division kills.
Very true
Dehumanizing the other is only the beginning.
Hit too close to home huh?
No, only sad that people who call themselves progressive are making propaganda for the fascists to recruit.
It’s a meme targeting the incel belief system, thus the clown makeup
Except it makes the link with loneliness, which has nothing to do with incels. By doing so, this kind of post litteraly says that alllonely men are like the worst incels.
It is insulting. And it is directly feeding the narrative of the fascists that says that feminists are mere anti-men instead of pro-equality.
This même is a blend of arrogance, ignorance, disdain and malice. Even the fascist are rarely doing so bad.
It is a progression meme though. Your example would be Lonely=incel
And the progression means thatl only incels come to this conclusion. Which is where it is insulting to many men who aren’t incels.
I don’t see it as a binary choice. Maybe some people can’t read the meme format. Anyone with critical thinking can realize this is not a Venn diagram
If you had any education in logic, A => B => C means something.
When you do this logical development, it means C is the consequence of A.
The même format also implies that C is a stupid assertion, because it’s associated with the clown figure. It says that the existence of a loneliness epidemic is a stupid proposition.
This is denying reality. And this is mocking the people who suffer from loneliness.
The biggest problem is not even the link between incels and loneliness epidemic. It is the denial of the problem. This is litteraly akin to conspiracy theories.
Its a top down progression logic of conditional statements if this then this, it doesn’t work backwards. As I mentioned elsewhere it is not a Venn diagram meme where bottom statement is the only way you could be lonely.
deleted by creator
It’s a meme targeting lonely men by equating them with incels.
Is the lonely man painting his clown life in each step? No. He is just lonely as he hasn’t done the first 3 steps
But he still is in the fourth step, and it is presumed that the first three is how he got there.
And then you will wonder why young men are misogynistic I guess. The answer is that you’re a fucking antagonising moron.
Get the damn basics right. Look after your personal hygiene, dress well, smell good, smile, show respect and practice good manners. Congrats, you are now significantly more desirable.
Go outside and stop blaming women for everything.
And you are also an ignorant idiot and an asshole. The lack of empathy and understanding here is absolutely baffling.
You are the clown in the meme.
Of the two of you, you seem more hateful
Oh no, hate against stupid misogynistic and anti-feminist talking points. How awful.
My dude, you are the one here basically claiming that the only reason men are lonely is them being bad hygiene women haters. It’s literally misogynistic.
Blaming a societal breakdown of connection and interaction on men is just as misogynistic as blaming it on women. Stop being a part of the problem.
I’m basically claiming nothing of the sort pal. You know what else is an epidemic? Violence against women and girls, fuelled by far-right social media influencers preying on young men. Inceldom is a disease and treating these people like they’re just poor victims of societal ills is bullshit. They know what they’re doing, they encourage and glorify mistreatment of women.
I’m simply saying that finding companionship in life doesn’t need to be a whole field of research and analysis for young men. Get the basics right, and you can find a partner.
To hell with the kid gloves treatment of bad actors. You want to help young men, tell them the truth about the people they look up to and give them proper guidance.
If this meme was focused on incel-dom then i would agree with you, but it literally states “there is a loneliness epidemic”, and trying to imply that people who are lonely are incels is outright wrong. Many men (and also women) are lonely, but not because they don’t “have the basics right”, nor do they blame women in any way. Societal loneliness is a real and growing problem that affects more than incels.
Lol but you’re supposed to heed the call to hate women
“You should smile more!”
Whew Lad, you must be projecting.
I’m a man, I’m lonely. Why? Because I spent the last 30 years building a career and my social circle is tiny. My personal hobbies and interest took a back seat to building my company, helping my wife through a 2nd and then 3rd Masters Degree, and raising my Son.
Personal Hygiene? Showered at least every day. Dress Well? I’m in collars, slacks, and dress shoes at least 5 days a week. Smell Good? Yeah, got it covered. Smile? Yeah, got it covered. Show Respect? Yeah, got it covered. Practice Good Manners? Pretty rich coming from you.
Go outside and stop blaming women for everything.
You have a child’s understanding of the world around and lack empathy. Go read a book.
You’re presumably middle aged, and you’re married with a family. You’re not the person the meme is targeting. Way to ignore the first 3 panels.
Should we also show “empathy” to Klansmen who joined up because they claim to feel disenfranchised by society? Give them a pat on the back? No, we tell them why their belief system is backwards and help them turn away from it.
Your idea of empathy is why the Andrew Tates of this world can thrive. Worthless sentimentality and obsession with civility rather than seriously challenging toxic ideology. It’s the liberal way.
It’s an incel meme, thus the clown makeup he applies to himself. I think people are reading this as a literal flow chart, instead of a parody
There’s not a male loneliness epidemic.
There’s a loneliness epidemic.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
“Joking” by trying to turn this into men vs women is pretty gross.
The solutions look a lot different for the real loneliness epidemic than a “male loneliness epidemic”. You fix the first by creating more walkable cities, more third places you can be without needing to spend money, and giving people the time and money they need to go out, do things, and socialize.
The proposed solutions for the “male loneliness epidemic” seem to be a lot more like shitty men saying “women need to lower their standards and be okay with being my therapist/mom/girlfriend, while I change nothing about myself”
To the average person not caught up in culture war issues, the OP looks like the exact mirror of “women need to lower their standards and be okay with being my therapist/mom/girlfriend, while I change nothing about myself”. That’s a disgusting take, as is saying that men are lonely because they objectify women and have no empathy.
On their face they’re both shitty misogynist/misandrist viewpoints.
It’s bigotry and sharing bigoted memes is wrong, regardless of which ‘side’ is being targeted.
In addition, the underlying message in both of these viewpoints is an attempt to frame the real loneliness epidemic as something that is fabricated by ‘the other side’ and not a real issue with real victims.
There’s a reason the guy in the meme is dressed like a clown.
I completely understand the meme.
I just think the underlying assumptions that the joke is built on are misandrist. In addition, the implication that the loneliness epidemic isn’t real or is largely caused by men (or women in the reverse of this meme) is causing real damage.
You can’t talk about loneliness online without toxic people (“incel”/“femcel”) using these kind of “jokes” to be bigots and people who’re not steeped in online culture read this as “men are lonely because they objectify women and are have no empathy”
It’s not against the community rules, but it’s a joke built on bigotry and I think it’s toxic.
It is a parody of the incel belief system, not actually meant to represent an equal cross section of society
It can be read either way.
It’s also simple enough in structure to be generated slop and the OP could just be an automated account.
It’s hard to say what is true, but on the face of it we should all be able to agree that it would be a bigoted opinion to express literally, out loud and in public.
(Like the OP is doing)
The title should be different but the meme stands on its own. The clown has built a logical fallacy of why he is lonely. To me this is a jab at incel beliefs and doesn’t have a deeper meaning
Are these three same guys that think that eating pussy makes you gay?
It’s no fucking wonder they’re lonely.
Have they tried not being assholes?
Anyone who says that has never been offered pussy, at least not twice. I ate pussy before I fucked pussy, although it happenned in short succession
Boys are taught to ignore emotions (“are you crying? Man up!”)
But emotions is what connects humans (and animals for that matter) and can’t really be ignored anyway
Join the two… and you get loneliness, frustration, rage.
We should start a conversation on emotional education (not only for boys but especially for boys)
I think it’s in our nature.
I’ve seen no evidence that these kinds of traits are inherently biological.
Regardless of the fact that we have significant evidence that these more “new” forms of masculinity that incorporate less domineering and aggressive mannerisms are beneficial to men, I simply haven’t seen any evidence that these traits are biological.
In the same way that when you don’t socialize a child to prefer certain clothes or toys, (or stigmatize against them) they generally just go with what they prefer in the moment along lines that don’t match the gender binary, from what I’ve seen, the same is generally true for behaviors. We’re heavily influenced by our cultures and by extension, our upbringing, to a degree that explains why these mannerisms are commonly expressed along gendered lines.
they generally just go with what they prefer in the moment along lines that don’t match the gender binary
Nope. Lego did a large behavioural study on this because this was their assumption, they thought they were doing completely gender-neutral stuff, but even controlling for parents’s biases their stuff wasn’t gender-neutral when it came to actually be interesting to kids. I’m talking about stuff like the city series, here: A street, bunch of houses, bunch of minifigs. Figures that the girls by and large where looking at the inside of the buildings, finding them empty, and lost interest while boys where seeing the streets, found ample of detail and also a car to drive around, and created stories. There are, of course, as always exceptions to the binary but the overall trend was undeniable.
That (and the insistence of US stores on not having gender-neutral isles and putting Lego in the boy’s section) made them create the Friends series: Detailed house interiors, larger, more detailed minifigs. The pink is for the stores and parents, the interiors for the girls, the build-what-you-want flexibility for the humans.
Generally speaking, I think that difference feminism has been discarded prematurely. Sure, none of the normative BS that many of its proponents espoused should ever see the light of day, but denying difference is harmful in its own way, and the reason is the inevitability of essentialising: If you say “there is no difference at all between men and women” you’re bound to essentialise everyone towards your own gender. And it’s way better to be essentialised as an apple when you’re an apple than it is to be essentialised as a pear.
Do you realise that kids before puberty don’t have much difference from biological point of view. Sexual organs are not developed or fully developed and no hormones to speak of.
The story of Lego you said… cool you can control parents behaviour… what about peer pressure? Or the idea was to control the parents of a whole town (including Cartoons and TV shows)?
Boys develop coarse motor skills first, then fine motor skills, for girls it’s the other way around. Which also means that girls are quite good at sitting still in primary school, boys, without getting tired out in recess, very much aren’t. Cue “behavioural issues”.
Lego did control for everything that could be controlled. They’re the OG “our toys are for everyone” company. They thought that their stuff was gender neutral, that stores and parents, society, were the problem, but had to admit that, no, kids actually do have, statistically speaking, different play preferences. Their female set designers didn’t catch it because they were not kids, any more.
And “no hormones to speak of” MF if there were no hormones involved male karyotypes would develop female.
Lego did a large behavioural study on this because this was their assumption, they thought they were doing completely gender-neutral stuff, but even controlling for parents’s biases their stuff wasn’t gender-neutral when it came to actually be interesting to kids.
Interesting. I can’t seem to find anything on this study, but maybe that’s just my search engine not providing very relevant results.
What is a relevant result is the study from just a few years ago that Lego also commissioned, which they’re using to justify making their product lines more gender neutral, after finding that:
“girls today feel increasingly confident to engage in all types of play and creative activities, but remain held back by society’s ingrained gender stereotypes” and that “Girls […] are more open towards different types of creative play compared to what their parents and society typically encourage.”
And they found a significant effect from parents pushing their kids into certain interests and hobbies influencing the behaviors of children:
Our insights further indicate that girls are typically encouraged into activities that are more cognitive, artistic and related to performance compared to boys who are more likely to be pushed into physical and STEM-like activities (digital, science, building, tools). Parents from this study are almost five times as likely to encourage girls over boys to engage in dance (81% vs. 19%) and dress-up (83% vs. 17%) activities, and over three times as likely to do the same for cooking/baking (80% vs. 20%). Adversely, they are almost four times as likely to encourage boys over girls to engage in program games (80% vs. 20%) and sports (76% vs. 24%) and over twice as likely to do the same when it comes to coding toys (71% vs. 29%)
And they even showed that kids felt pressured not to engage in cross-gendered play, even when they wanted to:
71% of boys vs. 42% of girls say they worry about being made fun of if they play with a toy typically associated for the other gender.
Now, a quick note on your other point.
If you say “there is no difference at all between men and women” you’re bound to essentialise everyone towards your own gender.
I don’t believe there is no difference at all between men and women. I simply believe that a lot of the things we say are inherent differences are actually not as inherent as people tend to believe.
For example, I’ve seen no evidence that women are inherently more kind/caring/empathetic than men in any biological way, only that society socializes them to be so, and thus we see that trend perpetuated over time. Yet if you ask most people, they’ll assume there’s something biological that makes women more like that emotionally.
I don’t believe there is no difference at all between men and women. I simply believe that a lot of the things we say are inherent differences are actually not as inherent as people tend to believe.
Depending on who you mean with “we” I definitely agree.
For example, I’ve seen no evidence that women are inherently more kind/caring/empathetic than men in any biological way, only that society socializes them to be so,
…and fails at doing so, if I may add. Male-pattern aggression is simply more obvious because it’s in your face physical while female-pattern is psychological, always ensuring plausible deniability.
Yet if you ask most people, they’ll assume there’s something biological that makes women more like that emotionally.
Women favour low-risk engagement, passive aggressiveness over overt aggressiveness. Thus you see emotional manipulation used way more often, one approach being self-victim-framing, and for that the narrative of “oh women are so delicate and emotional they have to be protected no matter what they do” fits the bill. Female viciousness is beautiful but I very much prefer it in the “never start a fight, but always finish it” version. Relevant symphonic metal. Also if you’re trying it with me you’re getting tickled into submission.
Because nobody wants men to be emotional. When I started opening up is when my marriage started falling apart lol
If opening up is what caused the marriage to fall apart, it was built on a broken foundation and was doomed from the start. You’re only finding out now because emotional unavailability hides that sort of thing.
Yeah happens even before marriage.
Yeah I ain’t ever showing emotions again except to a paid professional lmao.
Most women want someone very emotionally stable
Yeah as I said… emotional education should not be only for boys.
Sorry mate (or congratulation… depending from the context 🙂)
i think its more than just women
why the downvotes?
Because it belittles male loneliness. Of course women are not the cause, but it is quite real and affects many men, including those who do not blame women at all.
If the meme ended with “why won’t women date me” or something, I think it would be fine.
check fediverse comments
they’re full of hit dogs hollering
The guys saying the top three things aren’t necessarily the same as those saying the bottom thing. But there is definitely some overlap. Which is depressing. Though, I mean is that really that surprising given the state of the world and how stupid the average person is?
The loneliness epidemic also effects women. We’re all more lonely and miserable these days. I think really men and women are alienated from each other in large numbers due to internet brain rot. And being too broke to do anything outside except like… go to a public park or a library or something.
The shitty rightwing politics comes after, the average person is too stupid to not get immediately sucked into manipulative rightwing grift when they’re painfully lonely.
I say this as I consume internet brain rot myself. Though at least its on Lemmy and not Tik Tok, Reddit, or Facebook, and its during work, not my free time.
But going to the park or beach is fun. My first date with my partner was drinking cider on a park bench by a river.
Not everyone loves meandering around a park or beach. Though I’ll admit its good for our brains to do so. It always feels like a chore to me, I get bored.
Also was it alcoholic cider? That would explain why it was fun.
Also those places aren’t really great for meeting people and even then you don’t want to make those locations the only dating locations.
Cider is always alcoholic in the UK unless specifically sold as low alcohol. Typically first dates are not the same place you first meet someone.
For everyone seeing this post on /all and trying to engage in good faith, remember that this is a .ml community.
Please, can you explain me what “.ml” is for? It is for “male” or something like that?
Edit: I do not know a lot about Lemmy Instances. I only use lemmy.world and mujico.org.
Lemmy is full of misogynists, so good luck posting these. Fight the good fight
Is it ok to say I love that you’re using that reference as your username?
Yes :)
Well I do because it’s awesome. Personally I’m more of a Volume 2 guy, but also enjoy the masterfully subtle metaphors on Volume 1.
I agree great username xF
Isn’t the meme misandrist?
No, and further, who cares? Misandry isn’t a problem compared to misogyny, and likely wouldn’t exist if there was no misogyny as it tends to be an emotional reaction to misogynistic abuse by men.
Misogyny, however, is the status quo, men learn enforcement of misogyny through other men (and sometimes women) and their testosterone and beliefs/choices keeps them enforcing (per Sapolsky, T doesn’t cause aggression but enforcement). Any dissent by women against misogyny is dismissed, as the system itself is self protective against dissent and nebulous “feminity,” whatever that may be (eg by today’s standards, Jesus, just looking at him on a sidewalk, codes as a poss transwoman or NB in his dress and with his long hair). The goalposts of “woman bad” are therefore moved by other men to manipulate men behaviorally and economically. They kill and rape their own families for misogyny. They go to war for misogyny. A system of oppression they uphold even to their own detriment.
Misandry, on the other hand, is women responding to this system and being so traumatized that they literally hate all men, because of how men treat them in their enforcement of misogyny which leads to enslavement of women and removal of autonomy. Misandry doesn’t do that to men. Men have never been forbidden from owning land unless they find a man to enslave them and rape them for life.
Literally that’s what the threat of misogyny and marriage brings- I, the man, will hoard safety and resources and make the world unsafe with my actions, as a direct threat to women if they don’t want to fuck me and be enslaved to me. I will force women into proximity with me or those women can just die.
Misandry however, is more like, I will defend myself against men, all men are evil (heuristic that isn’t totally accurate), I will use force to defend myself against men including verbal attacks, refusing to caretake, and physical attacks. I will live without men because of their harm to me and others. Men will have to find their own societies and comfort in each other.
See how misandry isn’t trying to force a whole gender into enslavement? Unlike misogyny which not only is trying to do so including with current policies being passed in the US, but has already done so in the past?
They aren’t equivalent. Whatabout misandry when misogyny is and has always been the biggest issue of control at a societal level AND individual level is wild and shows that you are a misogynist yourself fyi.
Ah, the classic generalization of men and women as singular groups where everyone acts as one.
There are certain shitty men who objectify women and play alphas. There is the general category of men who get shitted at because of it, whether they belong to the former or not.
Sure, being afraid of the shitty folks is a valid reason to be cautious around everyone, as you can’t easily tell one from the other. But saying that all men just made this stuff up while being total asses wouldn’t be fair or helpful.
To be clear: there is a male loneliness epidemic driven by ever increasing caution about men overall. Men are often unfairly denied attention they need because they are seen as potential dangers by women and might be ridiculed for speaking out about their feelings by men (which, in turn, do it to protect themselves from the same treatment in an unhealthy patriarchal culture).
This is not healthy; moreover, being in that state of loneliness and frustration is prone to radicalizing people, making sayings about dangerous men a self-fulfilling prophecy in one case, and just causing a lot of misery in the other.
If you’re a woman, I’d suggest giving a bit of attention to the men around you. There is a million of untold stories there, and making someone open up to you for the first time is a great and rewarding experience. Or just…be there, and that will be appreciated.
Uh where’s the generalization here? The post didn’t say “all men” anywhere in it. It’s suggesting that people who say the first things lead to saying the later things, leading to their loneliness. Not every man is lonely… but a lot who are make everyone uncomfortable because of the shit they say.
Valid perspective; but I think it’s quite clearly implied given the scale of the issue. The male loneliness is real, and shouldn’t be written off as shit misogynists say, even if it was popularized by them. This kind of discarding might hurt men who have nothing to do with misogynistic talking points, opinions, or actions.
I don’t think the loneliness epidemic is uniquely male though. It’s an affliction of this entire generation. There is a specific subset of men that have been radicalized against women as a scapegoat for the loneliness they feel, but the true cause is increasing social alienation driven by capitalism. The specific mechanism not being limited to the commodification of our attention that has been enabled by the advent of high speed internet.
Absolutely! Everyone gets lonelier as we are getting divided; it’s just that it’s even harder on men specifically, as there are additional factors at play. But it doesn’t mean women don’t experience similar things.
I disagree strongly and I don’t think you get what I’m saying. It’s not a competition and there’s no need to dismiss the feelings of one side or the other. If you are a man, and especially if you are occupied by a specific focus on men, you cannot know the extent of women’s loneliness or the impact that it has on women. The same goes vice versa. The issue is too nebulous, too subjective and complexly intertwined with too many different aspects of our lives as humans. It’s a fool’s errand.
It doesn’t matter who has it harder, because the root cause is the same. Addressing this root cause will help every person experiencing loneliness in the modern age regardless of gender. Any other solution is just treating the symptoms and will inevitably result in people being left out and marginalized. People who matter. It will inevitably result in division, which hurts our ability to unite and fight for a common cause.
This stoking of a needless war between the genders is a counter-revolutionary tactic employed by the ruling class to keep us fighting amongst ourselves instead of challenging their power. They want us focused on pushing forward half-measures; measures that can be easily struck down, agitated against, that will keep us going in circles; measures that do not fundamentally challenge the systems that created these issues in the first place and, in fact, depend on the persistence of these issues.
I totally agree with you that gender wars are artificial and meant to distract people from the core issues. Divide and conquer kinda thing.
But that sits exactly at the core of my initial argument. Blaming wide groups of people, among other things, provides completely unnecessary wars out of thin air.
This doesn’t deny the fact that people of each gender may face issues that are gender-specific to some degree. Men are more likely to be socially isolated, women are more likely to become victims of sexual abuse, etc. etc. This doesn’t mean we should measure who has it worse, but it has to be taken into consideration if we want to correct the course and make everyone actually equal. In this case, we need to address specific sources of male loneliness, as there are some factors unique to men that lead to this.
People acting on gender issues together, not as two divided groups, is a great exercise in civil power and unity, which is helpful for any revolutionary activity.
