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they’re full of hit dogs hollering
Ah, the classic generalization of men and women as singular groups where everyone acts as one.
There are certain shitty men who objectify women and play alphas. There is the general category of men who get shitted at because of it, whether they belong to the former or not.
Sure, being afraid of the shitty folks is a valid reason to be cautious around everyone, as you can’t easily tell one from the other. But saying that all men just made this stuff up while being total asses wouldn’t be fair or helpful.
To be clear: there is a male loneliness epidemic driven by ever increasing caution about men overall. Men are often unfairly denied attention they need because they are seen as potential dangers by women and might be ridiculed for speaking out about their feelings by men (which, in turn, do it to protect themselves from the same treatment in an unhealthy patriarchal culture).
This is not healthy; moreover, being in that state of loneliness and frustration is prone to radicalizing people, making sayings about dangerous men a self-fulfilling prophecy in one case, and just causing a lot of misery in the other.
If you’re a woman, I’d suggest giving a bit of attention to the men around you. There is a million of untold stories there, and making someone open up to you for the first time is a great and rewarding experience. Or just…be there, and that will be appreciated.
Uh where’s the generalization here? The post didn’t say “all men” anywhere in it. It’s suggesting that people who say the first things lead to saying the later things, leading to their loneliness. Not every man is lonely… but a lot who are make everyone uncomfortable because of the shit they say.
Valid perspective; but I think it’s quite clearly implied given the scale of the issue. The male loneliness is real, and shouldn’t be written off as shit misogynists say, even if it was popularized by them. This kind of discarding might hurt men who have nothing to do with misogynistic talking points, opinions, or actions.
I don’t think the loneliness epidemic is uniquely male though. It’s an affliction of this entire generation. There is a specific subset of men that have been radicalized against women as a scapegoat for the loneliness they feel, but the true cause is increasing social alienation driven by capitalism. The specific mechanism not being limited to the commodification of our attention that has been enabled by the advent of high speed internet.
Absolutely! Everyone gets lonelier as we are getting divided; it’s just that it’s even harder on men specifically, as there are additional factors at play. But it doesn’t mean women don’t experience similar things.
I disagree strongly and I don’t think you get what I’m saying. It’s not a competition and there’s no need to dismiss the feelings of one side or the other. If you are a man, and especially if you are occupied by a specific focus on men, you cannot know the extent of women’s loneliness or the impact that it has on women. The same goes vice versa. The issue is too nebulous, too subjective and complexly intertwined with too many different aspects of our lives as humans. It’s a fool’s errand.
It doesn’t matter who has it harder, because the root cause is the same. Addressing this root cause will help every person experiencing loneliness in the modern age regardless of gender. Any other solution is just treating the symptoms and will inevitably result in people being left out and marginalized. People who matter. It will inevitably result in division, which hurts our ability to unite and fight for a common cause.
This stoking of a needless war between the genders is a counter-revolutionary tactic employed by the ruling class to keep us fighting amongst ourselves instead of challenging their power. They want us focused on pushing forward half-measures; measures that can be easily struck down, agitated against, that will keep us going in circles; measures that do not fundamentally challenge the systems that created these issues in the first place and, in fact, depend on the persistence of these issues.
I totally agree with you that gender wars are artificial and meant to distract people from the core issues. Divide and conquer kinda thing.
But that sits exactly at the core of my initial argument. Blaming wide groups of people, among other things, provides completely unnecessary wars out of thin air.
This doesn’t deny the fact that people of each gender may face issues that are gender-specific to some degree. Men are more likely to be socially isolated, women are more likely to become victims of sexual abuse, etc. etc. This doesn’t mean we should measure who has it worse, but it has to be taken into consideration if we want to correct the course and make everyone actually equal. In this case, we need to address specific sources of male loneliness, as there are some factors unique to men that lead to this.
People acting on gender issues together, not as two divided groups, is a great exercise in civil power and unity, which is helpful for any revolutionary activity.
i think its more than just women
For everyone seeing this post on /all and trying to engage in good faith, remember that this is a .ml community.
Please, can you explain me what “.ml” is for? It is for “male” or something like that?
Edit: I do not know a lot about Lemmy Instances. I only use lemmy.world and mujico.org.
why the downvotes?
Because it belittles male loneliness. Of course women are not the cause, but it is quite real and affects many men, including those who do not blame women at all.
If the meme ended with “why won’t women date me” or something, I think it would be fine.
Lemmy is full of misogynists, so good luck posting these. Fight the good fight
Isn’t the meme misandrist?
No, and further, who cares? Misandry isn’t a problem compared to misogyny, and likely wouldn’t exist if there was no misogyny as it tends to be an emotional reaction to misogynistic abuse by men.
Misogyny, however, is the status quo, men learn enforcement of misogyny through other men (and sometimes women) and their testosterone and beliefs/choices keeps them enforcing (per Sapolsky, T doesn’t cause aggression but enforcement). Any dissent by women against misogyny is dismissed, as the system itself is self protective against dissent and nebulous “feminity,” whatever that may be (eg by today’s standards, Jesus, just looking at him on a sidewalk, codes as a poss transwoman or NB in his dress and with his long hair). The goalposts of “woman bad” are therefore moved by other men to manipulate men behaviorally and economically. They kill and rape their own families for misogyny. They go to war for misogyny. A system of oppression they uphold even to their own detriment.
Misandry, on the other hand, is women responding to this system and being so traumatized that they literally hate all men, because of how men treat them in their enforcement of misogyny which leads to enslavement of women and removal of autonomy. Misandry doesn’t do that to men. Men have never been forbidden from owning land unless they find a man to enslave them and rape them for life.
Literally that’s what the threat of misogyny and marriage brings- I, the man, will hoard safety and resources and make the world unsafe with my actions, as a direct threat to women if they don’t want to fuck me and be enslaved to me. I will force women into proximity with me or those women can just die.
Misandry however, is more like, I will defend myself against men, all men are evil (heuristic that isn’t totally accurate), I will use force to defend myself against men including verbal attacks, refusing to caretake, and physical attacks. I will live without men because of their harm to me and others. Men will have to find their own societies and comfort in each other.
See how misandry isn’t trying to force a whole gender into enslavement? Unlike misogyny which not only is trying to do so including with current policies being passed in the US, but has already done so in the past?
They aren’t equivalent. Whatabout misandry when misogyny is and has always been the biggest issue of control at a societal level AND individual level is wild and shows that you are a misogynist yourself fyi.
Tho, I think your comment shows that you are a misandrist, with how you are trying to justify, downplay and even lowkey promoting it.
Anyway, not going to argue much about it here, since you seem to a misandrists who calls anyone who disagrees with your pov as a misogynist
Again, who cares? Men are literally enslaving and killing us all. Who even has time to be upset at misandry?
Misandry isn’t a problem compared to misogyny, and likely wouldn’t exist if there was no misogyny
This is what peak anti-male sexism looks like.
“Who cares?” Yeah, not your pathetic, empathy-free ass, you’ve made that abundantly clear.
For shame.
Men don’t deserve empathy.
And it’s not peak anti-male sexism, lol you soft cupcake
Men don’t deserve empathy.
What a frustrated poor little creature you seem to be.
Is it ok to say I love that you’re using that reference as your username?
Yes :)
Well I do because it’s awesome. Personally I’m more of a Volume 2 guy, but also enjoy the masterfully subtle metaphors on Volume 1.
I agree great username xF
if the problem is that men have loneliness issues i have a solution.
it’s men, more than one, become friends.
is there a issue with modern social alienation caused by individual atomisation? yes.
should we focus on it? yes
does it mean that women owe them sex? fuck no,
I don’t understand misogyny at all. What’s it all about? If you were homosexual and were raised in an ancient Macedonian army or something perhaps you wouldn’t see a mother, sisters, daughters, lovers, work colleagues, neighbors, friends but who lives like that? Boys who live in front of a screen and are too anxious and scared to go outside? Racism I can kind of understand if you only have superficial knowledge of other people and cultures.
Once that testosterone kicks in at puberty women aren’t generally a physical threat to men. I don’t really understand all the fear of them. Some women are really, really cool. Like serious friend material and lifelong partner stuff.
Power to control women and force them to have sex with you. A bit like rape, but less crude.
They don’t hate women, they just like to dominate.
80% of car accidents here are caused by wreckless driving by guys.
Guys are more dominant, and dominating women is viewed as misogyny.
Do not misunderstand. There’s no hatred for women.
Except in niche cases like my mate that got his heart broken at age 15 when he was fat, then he went on and dated 5 girls at the same time because he didn’t trust them. Then basically kept 1 of them and is now in a long term relationship. The one girl never knowing that he did that.
He was raised by his grandparents/single mother.
His dad went on to have a 2nd family where he wouldn’t be a deadbeat father. So it’s kinda idk… it’s his stuff.
So I guess there can be some hatred for women when it comes to having a broken heart and trust issues. But that’s mostly for young guys.
Hating people is mostly a dumb thing to do, but it’s not always a choice. You get your heart broken, love turns to hate until enough time passes before it can become indifference and you move on.
Racism… 14 year olds are idiots. They segregate themselves by how they look and sound like and start fighting with eachother.
Russia phobia 😎 well, they done fucked up didn’t they?
What else do we have…
Sinophobia… scary government bruv
Western phobia… I’ll let LMs write that one out
Phobia’s a normal thing, gets eliminated by long term communication
As a fat highschooler, ehen, as a fat woman highschooler, i got rejected so many times. Never once did it make me hate and distrust men. Because every person is their own.
Get fit. Just do it. I started working out when I was 17, been doing for 12 years now. Best investment.
I did.
I was big growing up because my guardian literally kept me in my room, threw McDonald’s at me and called me a fat bitch. I was allowed to go to school, and go to my room from age 12-16. When he was arrested i lost 60 pounds, gained it back though. Then when i was 21 i lost 80 pounds in 11 months, i worked hard, rode my bike to work.
Then, I got pregnant at 25. Gained for that- but lost it all fast with nursing and maintained healthy weight until the pandemic. I liked hiking, and riding my bike to work, and ate whole foods, i had, had fast food a whole 3 times since i was 21. … until i was 32. My male coworkers ate bk for lunch every day, they were thin, our work was hard (i lifted and packed approx 2000-3000 pounds of material we made a shift), so i started getting Bk too. And i got fat.
The pandemic hit and my now husband got the unemployment, so he ordered restaurant food nearly 5x a week. I left my job to support my kid. I peaked my weight again.
Now, at 37 years old, with a special needs child, no walkability in my neighborhood, and no car (we have one car and he works a lot) to drive to the trails… my son at seven, stopped liking hiking anyway, i find myself stuck in my house. (The last time i took him he literally just layed down in the beginning of the trail and refused to move, its kind of funny now). This also was when hubs was ordering hella food, id get a salad or whatever but fries are just, a god. Anyway
I live a pretty isolated life. I signed up $40/month for a gym with a pool and was swimming last year, but when i only have a one hour window (with the car) to go a day, and the pool schedule being what it was, i stopped going. Excuse? Sure, but i always found it easist to lose weight and exercise when it was baked into my life, and not like, going to the gym, i dont want people to see the fat girl run, even when i was 21 i would run my neighborhood at night so people couldnt see me. But i liked the pool, i just cant get there without a car, which i dont have. My bike is broken, i sont onow how to fix it, and cant afford to, and like i said, you come out my little neighborhood, its immediately highway. I walked with ny son up there one day to try and go somewhere, and someone took a right on red, when we had the crosswalk, and nearly hit us. All you could hear was cars, and smell exhaust- truly aweful pedestrian experience.
Im back on whole foods, but its not really what i eat now, its seditary lifestyle. “So get out there!” One might say, i have highways on two sides of me, and an airport on the other, and a swamp on the otherside. My favorite local grocer is .6 miles from me measured directly through the swamp to the strip mall, you have to take a highway to get there. It’s so frustrating, i would walk. I really would. I struggle to work out on my own, my husband is tall and thin, and hates working out, so im on my own. Thats the hard part. Im keep eating my veggies and whole foods and continue to work on it, since i turned 32 my goal is to get fit again by 40.
My husband got a sword and i was messing around with it, and realized my arms have gotten weak, so just this week i started doing push ups. Or even just trying to hold myself up in that planking position. I work on my binge eating disorder with my therapist because, being alone in the house, with no friends to invite me anywhere, just readig the Internet some mornings, is enough to say, "I don’t care I’m making nachos for breakfast, it doesnt make dishes, i dont feel like cleaning the god damn cutting board and doing dishes. I do em all by hand, and when you cook from scratch, dishes are… plentiful.
Anyway, i know its the best thing. I remember when i could run without getting winded, the energy i had, I refuse elevators and take the stairs at my therapist office, and i get mad im winded when i reach the top. Got tree work to do this week, idk. It’s not that im lazy, my binge really is just fucking nachos, and about six months ago, i decided, even if im binge nachos, i make a portion half what i used to, and double the jalapenos.
Youre preaching to the choir on this.
I want to add, the fist time i binge ate, i was 8 years old. My guardian had a snack draw, full of all the 90s kid corn syrup you could want. We were to pack two for our lunches each day. My guardian was a severe misogynist, and even at 8, i was angry all the fat boys in media were clowns and funny and liked, and the fat girls were basically conveyed as trolls.
I remember hearing “growing boys need to eat”, and at 8(edit maybe i was 10), i thought, im growing too, why cant i eat? And i ate up that snack draw. It was my first protest to “girls should only eat things they look cute eating”.
I like to think if i had a proper mother maybe that wouldnt have happened. But the mother i had, i saw once a month and didnt eat ant veggies, was thin, but meat and potatoes is all she ever ate, water tasted bad to her and she only drank coffee. She was never a big part of my life. But my misogynist guardian was, and thus began my disorder. “Mayo puts hair on your chest; women are weak and stupid, i dont date fat women” ect I would hear and it would piss me off. I got fat, and i was the “daughter” he didnt rape. It protected me, in a way, but ive a mouth and i wish he would have tried, i could have gotten us kids out sooner.
As a teen hed throw fast food at me and call me names while i was confined to my room, not even allowed out by the end, to use the bathroom.
I have c-ptsd, and now at 37 still fucking stuggle with it. I just wish i could live somewhere walkable, and i miss my 20s when i did live in a place like that.
Shoulda just killed him to be honest, but oh well
Your husband could try and get a job in Europe. Here in flanders there’s quite a lot of walkability. They are creating bike lanes. I’m lucky that I can bike to work 15 km without interacting much with cars.
I could suggest Indonesia, for 100k euros you have a nice apartment with access to a gym and swimming pool. But I don’t know about the needs of your child. They don’t really speak English there either, but Bahasa is pretty easy to learn.
Personally I’d go to Batam, Indonesia. Right under Singapore. Live in the center.
For walkability it’s bad there kinda. And hot. Be careful of things like construction work. Can’t really know if it’s all safe.
Bought my wife a home bike so that she could do some cardio while I worked. It’s good for the winter, it gets pretty cold here for her. She’s used to Indonesia and in Belgium it gets to 0 to minus 10 degrees in the winter months.
It’s a good option because you can read something while doing that. Basically you can be on the internet.
When you’re more fit, I’d suggest rope skipping. However it can be hard on the joints. It’s very good cardio though. Boxers do it all the time.
You also can buy some kettlebells. I have one of 16 and 20 kg at home, it takes no space at all. I use them for shoulder raises. They can be used for swings which is great cardio.
You can do bodyweight squats. I do 5 sets of 50 on a Sunday when I’m “too lazy” to fix up the weight for deadlift.
In all these years of working out, I quickly made the investment to have a home gym. Not because it’s cheaper in the long term, but because it’s far easier to actually do the workout.
The most difficult part about working out at a gym is getting to the gym. It feels like a drag. Sure, once at the gym it’s all great, but getting there the next time is once again a drag.
About food I don’t know shit though. I consume a lot of calories. Me working out and stuff like that is what I call damage control. I’m a stereotypical Belgian. I eat a lot of fries with mayo and drink strong beer.
Working out, and likely food, is all about mental stuff. Truly it’s half the battle. Need to figure out how to do a routine and keep to it. Like right now I’m going to do barbell rows because it’s Thursday. I don’t even view it as an option, it’s just what my Thursday looks like.
Good luck, getting back into shape is always difficult. But you know that after 2 months you’ll have a lot of energy. Then the trick is to keep working out just to keep that amount of energy.
Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.
Please take the time to listen to this lecture. It will genuinely help you and it’s very entertaining imo.
Testosterone causes enforcement, not aggression or dominance of women. Enforcement. Sapolsky did a famous study on baboons about this, amd we also have a human example - Buddhist monks who go around “enforcing” peace by chanting and praying etc.
Men hate women because they believe they should, they abuse women because they give themselves permission to do so. No other reason. Anything else is an excuse and justification for it. Read “Why Does He Do That?” By Lundy or “Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist” to learn more.
Bigotry is a product of narcissism, which is based in delusional beliefs. A narcissist may never get better. A racial narcissist example is a white supremacist (“my race is best”), which is obviously delusional, which causes narcissistic supply every time they confront it and refuse to let the delusion be corrected. They then will act out, eg say racist slurs, to enforce their racial narcissism on others to satisfy their brain chemistry (it’s deeply uncomfortable to resist unlearning delusional beliefs when faced with evidence, so they satisfy the histamine with adrenaline rushes included by being antisocial).
Aight I’ll put it on for an hour on YouTube vanced
Edit:
This guy is of far higher quality.
The video you showed me, god damn… the rambling goes on and on. Do not pay for his lectures, he’s just stretching the hour and giving you no content. Just money money money
This guy (even though you might hate him for being Israeli) is brilliant though. World renowned.
He’s been one of the leading neuroscientists and primate behaviorists in the world for decades now. Its not rambling, it’s information, and your brain is tired of learning. That’s just what learning feels like. Don’t you know that by now? It’ll take you time to learn. And he’s not saying anything about money? He’s talking about his research literally. How sad, our planet really has fallen so far in terms of academic discourse. Genuinely disappointing.
Nah he’s quite bad at holding my attention unlike Yuval noah harari
I love learning, just it has to be interesting
How truly sad
You externalize your difficulty with learning on the speaker.
Perhaps don’t speak then about subjects you can’t even learn at an introductory 101 level.
I’mma try that. I’mma sell my services and when a customer isn’t happy about the quality of my services (the fella is literally being paid to teach a certain amount of time), then I’m just going to gaslight the customer that they are the ones at fault.
I gave you a substitute for a far better speaker.
I prefer to listen to his new book Nexus.
Do give me a break, this isn’t my native language. The quality of communication is rather important in order to transfer information into me.
like YouTube free documentary. That’s high quality communication.
Narcissism is a scapegoat. Since a narcissist doesn’t know they are a narcissist. So the person can never defend themselves against you calling them a narcissist.
The term has been overused in the past few decades. I would only accept it if a well trained psychologist/psychiatrist would claim it about people. Otherwise, just can’t trust the source.
Everytime some folks talk about racial supremacy… they always talk about white supremacy and call it bad. Then I’d just say something like what about Han supremacy? Then they just act like it doesn’t exist.
All this bullshit can be fun, but there’s a lot of factors at play.
You can’t say it’s all nurture and no nature. The differences are far too big. In Belgium guys and girls are raised together. The same schools, the same families, the same government funding.
Sure there vast differences between the two female CFO’s I’ve worked for. Same for the male employers I’ve worked for. The two that showed signs of aggression were both large people. A woman and a man. They physically had the ability to cause damage on someone else.
My mom was the one doing the reckless driving and my dad drives perfectly. Aggression comes from my mom’s side of the family and level headedness from my dad’s side of the family.
Ah, whatever. It’s far too broad of a subject to be definite about. Too many factors at play
Narcissists can know they are narcissists, it’s just extremely shameful to them to admit it. What they admit or acknowledge is irrelevant though, as the more important thing is to recognize them because it makes them immediately disadvantaged. Narcissts can’t defend themselves because being a narcissist, makes them disadvantaged, because they are delusional. That’s fine if a white supremacist is disadvantaged and can’t defend himself. That’s good. Lol.
I don’t care if you accept it or understand it.
There are other type of racial narcissists besides white supremacists. White supremacists are widely studied because of the KKK and the Holocaust, among others, plus the so obvious not being better thing… It’s a classic example. Stop defending it, it’s obvious you bring up other races so that you, a white supremacist, can engage in your delusions about hating other races and confirm it.
When you’re told that white people aren’t best, it’s irritating you, right? That’s histamine, it helps you learn. Brain is literally releasing it so you can change your mind. You’ve learned to combat this histamine rush with anxiety and adrenaline (the -phobia part of narcissism), and externalizing and confirming your delusions of white people being supreme, so you automatically switch to bashing PoC to create brain connections to solidify the delusion. No one wants to engage with you because you’re sick and misinformed and they don’t want to make it worse by adding to those connections when you need to clean up and prune other connections first.
You can’t say it’s all nurture and no nature
Then take hormones and tell us how different you are. Go live as a woman. No one is stopping you. The fact that agender and multigender and intersex people exist shows that these binaries don’t exist and if there are hormonal and genetic influences on gendered behavior, why does gender expression change over time and in different places? Why aren’t you wearing a white fluffy wig and button up boots? Why don’t you have long hair and a dress like Jesus? Are you a fishing guy, a football guy, a soccer guy, a DnD guy, a rock climbing guy, etc - all different expressions of male gender, right? Why is someone with XY genes and complete androgen insensitivity labeled a girl? What gender is someone with Klinefelter’s (XXY)?
Aggressive behaviors happen because the person doing them has given themselves permission to do so.
Would your mom act as aggressively in front of her boss or someone she wants to impress? Or is she more openly aggressive in front of her family? And many large people actually have a “gentle giant” reputation, it’s just down to whatever that person thinks is an acceptable behavior.
In “Why Does He Do That?” Lundy asks abusers why they didn’t keep going. He says something like, “you punched her and shoved her to the ground, why didn’t you kick her in the face then? You could’ve really gotten her good then.” And the abuser will look genuinely shocked and say, “I would never do THAT, that could seriously kill her or hurt her.” They know. They have control. They would change their behavior if there were witnesses they cared about. They CHOOSE those actions because they give themselves permission.
Yeah I can’t take you serious when you call me a white supremacist. When you antagonise people, they won’t care about all that much that you say.
Then you call them a narcissist so that you don’t have to care.
I am not going to experiment with estrogen, I like muscle.
It’s just an ad hominem argumentation. Very low quality
And what kind of ridiculous term is PoC. Trust me, I’m far more anti American than anti Asia/Africa/middle east/south American.
That term just signals me that you’re American, and because of that, I actually start being xenophobic against you. Which is quite fun innit.
When I see dead bodies and it’s said that it’s a russian. Then I won’t care.
Bloody fun thing, the human mind.
You are a white supremacist by your own words. Too ashamed to admit it, though, just like I said in my first paragraph.
That’s not what ad hominem is.
Sure, you can be a geographical narcissist (xenophobe) too on top of being a racial narcissist. A lot of narcissists overlap but not always, and that’s why we get unique narcissistic individuals. Physical narcissists, gender narcissists, intellectual narcissists, etc. Many ways they interact.
And then if I spoke with you about something that is neutral and doesn’t trigger your narcissism, like maybe video games, then we’d be okay and we could have a polite conversation. Because narcissism is primarily delusions-based.
Nah I’d prefer being called a European supremacist, can you do that instead? The child in my wife’s uterus is going to be Eurasian.
Now we got the choice between raising it in Europe or in Asia and I prefer Europe. Although it depends on where in these two locations. Belgium Vs Indonesia. My main concern is the heat. The rest is fine, but god damn I want my winters.
Everyone has narcissistic traits, we can just call it self esteem. But only a very small part of the population has Narcissistic personality disorder.
It is 50% genetic 👀 so we’re back to nature/nurture blabla.
My mom did have quite the symptoms of the disorder. Mainly she thought that everyone was envious of her and that anything someone did was just something to affect her.
Now personally I have different symptoms, it doesn’t use other people, it’s mainly self esteem stuff like: I can get sexually turned on by looking in a mirror. I think I’m above average intellectually able. I think I make good decisions. I love talking about the details of my life. (I’m also interested in details of others their lives, most people lack the desire to be transparent). I also like talking about details bout anything to be honest. It’s just that I know a lot of my own life.
Now. Psychologist puts all of that on “mild autism”. Since my dad is autistic.
Now… Call me autist supremacist 😎 literally different brain wiring.
A woman is absolutely a threat to another human. Any animal that size is. That you think women are harmless is ironically, misogyny.
There’s a couple of.good books about this - Delusions of Gender by Fine and Sex, Lies, and Brain Scans. Basically we have implicit and explicit biases in how we expect people to perform roles. However, these biases aren’t based in fact. When we police other people’s behaviors based on these biases, or otherwise force others into roles we’ve developed, it’s bad/abusive.
Women are a special type of role, because that role generally means they have babies (ofc we all know many women who don’t have babies). The ownership of their baby making ability is likely why men created the patriarchy, to endanger women by other men, to force women into proximity of whatever man was able to support them. This, and the narrative that men should fuck as soon as they feel any sexual urges because that’s “being a man,” form the basis for their abuse of women over thousands of years.
Imagine how damaged all our mitochondrial DNA is from our mothers because of this, generations of trauma. And further, the eggs that made up YOU, were inside your mom as a baby, when she was inside HER mom. Meaning your grandma’s stress during and before pregnancy with your mom, had a direct impact on you as an egg. And further further, you get 100% of your cells from your mother, and 50% of your DNA. But every cell of life in your body came from your mother. Her stress and abuse has caused damage to the human condition imo and it is therefore vital to treat women well even if you only care about men.
And a key piece of taking good care of humans, is freedom and bodily autonomy, which form the basis for respect in most animal species.
Which is why misogyny hates all of that and why misogynists also tend to like hurting animals too.
Puh what a rant.
I actually just want to correct you on one thing and I am also Not sure what you really meant.
But we dont get 100% of our cells from our mothers. We get the mitochondria from our mothers. The cells that enclose those mitochondria are perfectly 50/50 after fertilisation.
Wrong. We get 100% of our cells from our mothers She grows every cell. The (1) cell contributed by the father, the sperm cell, is destroyed in the process of DNA exchange/fertilization. Only the egg cell remains, fertilized with 50% DNA from each parent, and it then begins to divide of course. And all of those divisions are of the mother, inside the mother, from the mother’s body. Every cell is created by your mother.
DNA is a different thing, our DNA is in all of our cells, and the information of that DNA is 50/50 (except mitochondrial DNA which 100% mother), but the actual physical amino acids of that DNA were all made by the mother’s body.
Eg I make a sandwich. 50% of the recipe came from me, 50% from Martha Stewart’s cookbook. I provide all ingredients, I make it, I eat it. Martha just provided instructions on how she makes hers and I replicated half of that along with half of my ideas to make a new sandwich.
Men only provide 50% DNA at conception which is 50% INFO, not actual biological material, not cells.
If you really want to get pedantic, you could say we inherit our first cell membrane and mitochindria from our mothers, 50% of our genetic material, and perhaps 95% of our first cell’s cytoplasm.
After that, our mothers provide material that the zygote/fetus uses to build itself. It sounds incorrect to say we get all our cells from our mother, since she’s not making the cells, but only providing material and a place to grow. I know what you mean and share your sentiment. When gardening, did I grow these plants or did they grow themselves? Did the workers build the car, or did the owner of the factory?
Also the info provided by the father is absolutely biological material.
She is making the cells. The cells are hers. Just like a cancer mass has different DNA from the host but we can recognize that it belongs to the host and was made by the host, and isn’t autonomous outside of the host. The cells can belong to both the tumor and the patient. Just like these cells are made by the mother, belong to the mother, and are also made by and belong to the fetus. Or do you not thing the original egg cell belonged to the mother?
The info provided is biological material in the sense that the initial DNA/RNA are a biological material, but they are not cells.
I don’t make a car or a plant in my uterus off my own life force, but nice try.
Omg…
Okay, so you do realize that there is no such thing as an „intrinsic mother essence“, right? These are just molecules.
It does NOT matter where the material came from, as long as the molecules are provided. That said, the cells will create most of the molecules variations themself from base molecules, e.g. in case of fatty acid derivatives. Molecules related to energy transfer like NAD or ATP e.g. are generally not provided by the mother but directly synthesized in the cells from predecessor molecules. Similar to all the proteins.
Additionally, there are molecules that are only provided by the mothers body but not synthesized like essential amino acids. They actually have an external origin.
Neither are your cells cow cells because you drink milk or tomato cells because you eat tomatos.
Not sure how the provision of building blocks makes these cells the mothers cells. They Are NOT cells of the mothers body.
You are absolutely clueless, I fear.
I never said there was a “mother essence”, don’t strawman.
Amino acids rarely come in their broken down form, the mother digests them to break them down. That’s how cow milk is broken down into its parts, as you so wisely point out later.
Further, she provides all those molecules and the first molecule.
She made those cells. Why do you want to deny this? It’s honestly so funny, like you’re discovering pregnancy for the first time
Look, whatever dude. Believe in a flat earth or whatever you like.
Still, The fetus‘ cells are not cells of the mother. The few molecules of the egg cell quickly dilute in a sea of newly synthesized molecules by the metabolism of the zygote and its repeating cell Division cycle.
You can keep repeating „because the building blocks are provided by the mother“. But that does not make the cells any more their mothers cells than, again, you being a cow when consuming milk. Your logic does Not make sense.
Its similar (not like) recycling. If I melt down metal from old computers to create a new computer. Then we have actually new components, a new computer. Its Not made up of the old Computer in a conventional sense. Sure on the atomic level its mostly the same atoms, but Talking about inheritance on that level brings the discussion to a completely ridiculous level.
Not sure how you justify any other view on this. Certainly not on the grounds of natural sciences or logic.
Lol it’s not flat earth. Who has the egg? Whose cell is the egg? The zygote is primarily made of the egg and the division and supplies for such are from the mother.
Again, cow’s milk goes in your mouth. Whereas this is being synthesized in your uterus. It’s different, no matter how much you want it to be the same. It’s more akin to a tumor.
The cells come from the mother. They certainly don’t come from the father or from nothingness. Ergo, from mom. That’s how that works. Matter neither created nor destroyed, thermodynamics, etc
Maybe they mean literally the body composition of a fetus when it starts to grow as it feeds off via placenta, like it literally gets 100% of the mass from the mother’s organism
When all your “friends” are alpha bro podcasters trying to get you to buy shit, yeah you’re gonna be lonely.
This meme is pathetic and offensive.
Offensive to who?
To the misogynists on Lemmy
People who are not misandrists?
Oh cool, I was wondering out loud with a coworker the other day whether or not there is a word for that. Thanks for the education 😄
Every lonely man who doesn’t fit the played out internet stereotype of an incel. You likely see several of them a day.
To say that being an asshole makes you lonely doesn’t mean that all lonely men are assholes.
I feel like that is not what op said
god this place is full of incels. grow a pair. real men don’t whine and blame other people. real men take responsibility and find solutions. real men have mature emotional intelligence. real men understand women’s wants and needs. real men pick up on cues and don’t make things awkward. maybe if you spent some time interacting with real people in real life, you wouldn’t be bitter.
the meme is perfect, btw.
Real men are a spook
Are these three same guys that think that eating pussy makes you gay?
It’s no fucking wonder they’re lonely.
Have they tried not being assholes?
Anyone who says that has never been offered pussy, at least not twice. I ate pussy before I fucked pussy, although it happenned in short succession
Memes is now shitting on genders ? Y’all fuckers don’t know shit about empathy, and about memes either.
Yes… It’s because of the few loud-mouthed, salty, misogynists that men are generally lonely.
Maybe if this wasn’t the attitude towards men all the time, there’d be less young boys listening to twats like Andrew Tate.
Or maybe if there were less young boys listening to Andrew Tate there wouldn’t be that attitude towards men?
Boys are taught to ignore emotions (“are you crying? Man up!”)
But emotions is what connects humans (and animals for that matter) and can’t really be ignored anyway
Join the two… and you get loneliness, frustration, rage.
We should start a conversation on emotional education (not only for boys but especially for boys)
Because nobody wants men to be emotional. When I started opening up is when my marriage started falling apart lol
If opening up is what caused the marriage to fall apart, it was built on a broken foundation and was doomed from the start. You’re only finding out now because emotional unavailability hides that sort of thing.
Yeah as I said… emotional education should not be only for boys.
Sorry mate (or congratulation… depending from the context 🙂)
Yeah happens even before marriage.
Yeah I ain’t ever showing emotions again except to a paid professional lmao.
Most women want someone very emotionally stable
Lol maybe talk to nicer women?
It’s not a “niceness” thing it’s instinctual
That’s so fucking silly
Why? Women want stability and protection usually
I just want to butt in that while the meme is stupid, most women are not awful either.
No of course they aren’t. Who said they are?
I’m saying women are put off my emotional instability aka “showing your feelings”
I think it’s in our nature.
I’ve seen no evidence that these kinds of traits are inherently biological.
Regardless of the fact that we have significant evidence that these more “new” forms of masculinity that incorporate less domineering and aggressive mannerisms are beneficial to men, I simply haven’t seen any evidence that these traits are biological.
In the same way that when you don’t socialize a child to prefer certain clothes or toys, (or stigmatize against them) they generally just go with what they prefer in the moment along lines that don’t match the gender binary, from what I’ve seen, the same is generally true for behaviors. We’re heavily influenced by our cultures and by extension, our upbringing, to a degree that explains why these mannerisms are commonly expressed along gendered lines.
they generally just go with what they prefer in the moment along lines that don’t match the gender binary
Nope. Lego did a large behavioural study on this because this was their assumption, they thought they were doing completely gender-neutral stuff, but even controlling for parents’s biases their stuff wasn’t gender-neutral when it came to actually be interesting to kids. I’m talking about stuff like the city series, here: A street, bunch of houses, bunch of minifigs. Figures that the girls by and large where looking at the inside of the buildings, finding them empty, and lost interest while boys where seeing the streets, found ample of detail and also a car to drive around, and created stories. There are, of course, as always exceptions to the binary but the overall trend was undeniable.
That (and the insistence of US stores on not having gender-neutral isles and putting Lego in the boy’s section) made them create the Friends series: Detailed house interiors, larger, more detailed minifigs. The pink is for the stores and parents, the interiors for the girls, the build-what-you-want flexibility for the humans.
Generally speaking, I think that difference feminism has been discarded prematurely. Sure, none of the normative BS that many of its proponents espoused should ever see the light of day, but denying difference is harmful in its own way, and the reason is the inevitability of essentialising: If you say “there is no difference at all between men and women” you’re bound to essentialise everyone towards your own gender. And it’s way better to be essentialised as an apple when you’re an apple than it is to be essentialised as a pear.
Do you realise that kids before puberty don’t have much difference from biological point of view. Sexual organs are not developed or fully developed and no hormones to speak of.
The story of Lego you said… cool you can control parents behaviour… what about peer pressure? Or the idea was to control the parents of a whole town (including Cartoons and TV shows)?
Boys develop coarse motor skills first, then fine motor skills, for girls it’s the other way around. Which also means that girls are quite good at sitting still in primary school, boys, without getting tired out in recess, very much aren’t. Cue “behavioural issues”.
Lego did control for everything that could be controlled. They’re the OG “our toys are for everyone” company. They thought that their stuff was gender neutral, that stores and parents, society, were the problem, but had to admit that, no, kids actually do have, statistically speaking, different play preferences. Their female set designers didn’t catch it because they were not kids, any more.
And “no hormones to speak of” MF if there were no hormones involved male karyotypes would develop female.
Lego did a large behavioural study on this because this was their assumption, they thought they were doing completely gender-neutral stuff, but even controlling for parents’s biases their stuff wasn’t gender-neutral when it came to actually be interesting to kids.
Interesting. I can’t seem to find anything on this study, but maybe that’s just my search engine not providing very relevant results.
What is a relevant result is the study from just a few years ago that Lego also commissioned, which they’re using to justify making their product lines more gender neutral, after finding that:
“girls today feel increasingly confident to engage in all types of play and creative activities, but remain held back by society’s ingrained gender stereotypes” and that “Girls […] are more open towards different types of creative play compared to what their parents and society typically encourage.”
And they found a significant effect from parents pushing their kids into certain interests and hobbies influencing the behaviors of children:
Our insights further indicate that girls are typically encouraged into activities that are more cognitive, artistic and related to performance compared to boys who are more likely to be pushed into physical and STEM-like activities (digital, science, building, tools). Parents from this study are almost five times as likely to encourage girls over boys to engage in dance (81% vs. 19%) and dress-up (83% vs. 17%) activities, and over three times as likely to do the same for cooking/baking (80% vs. 20%). Adversely, they are almost four times as likely to encourage boys over girls to engage in program games (80% vs. 20%) and sports (76% vs. 24%) and over twice as likely to do the same when it comes to coding toys (71% vs. 29%)
And they even showed that kids felt pressured not to engage in cross-gendered play, even when they wanted to:
71% of boys vs. 42% of girls say they worry about being made fun of if they play with a toy typically associated for the other gender.
Now, a quick note on your other point.
If you say “there is no difference at all between men and women” you’re bound to essentialise everyone towards your own gender.
I don’t believe there is no difference at all between men and women. I simply believe that a lot of the things we say are inherent differences are actually not as inherent as people tend to believe.
For example, I’ve seen no evidence that women are inherently more kind/caring/empathetic than men in any biological way, only that society socializes them to be so, and thus we see that trend perpetuated over time. Yet if you ask most people, they’ll assume there’s something biological that makes women more like that emotionally.
I don’t believe there is no difference at all between men and women. I simply believe that a lot of the things we say are inherent differences are actually not as inherent as people tend to believe.
Depending on who you mean with “we” I definitely agree.
For example, I’ve seen no evidence that women are inherently more kind/caring/empathetic than men in any biological way, only that society socializes them to be so,
…and fails at doing so, if I may add. Male-pattern aggression is simply more obvious because it’s in your face physical while female-pattern is psychological, always ensuring plausible deniability.
Yet if you ask most people, they’ll assume there’s something biological that makes women more like that emotionally.
Women favour low-risk engagement, passive aggressiveness over overt aggressiveness. Thus you see emotional manipulation used way more often, one approach being self-victim-framing, and for that the narrative of “oh women are so delicate and emotional they have to be protected no matter what they do” fits the bill. Female viciousness is beautiful but I very much prefer it in the “never start a fight, but always finish it” version. Relevant symphonic metal. Also if you’re trying it with me you’re getting tickled into submission.
