- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Summary
Immigration officials detained a US citizen for nearly 10 days in Arizona, according to court records and press reports.
On 8 April, a border patrol official found Hermosillo “without the proper immigration documents” and claimed that the young American had admitted entering the US illegally from Mexico.
On 17 April, a federal judge dismissed his case. “He did say he was a US citizen, but they didn’t believe him.”
“Under the Trump administration’s theory of the law, the government could have banished this U.S. citizen to a Salvadoran prison then refused to do anything to bring him back,” Mark Joseph Stern, a legal analyst for Slate, wrote on Bluesky. “This is why the Constitution guarantees due process to all. Could it be more obvious?”
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Don’t forget, “wrongfully” means incorrectly, i.e. against the law; it doesn’t mean “wrong” as in “unethical.” Practically every such detention should be considered wrong.
Well that’ll serve him right, going around the place looking vaguely foreign.
I got a great idea from a history book! How about all of us brown people start wearing an arm band!
It could be really cool to see all of us come together… In the gas chamber or the self powering ovens.
Like do they toss us into an existing fire dead or alive? Do they need us to dehydrate first? Do we eat doritos since those things are like dry fuel? And what do we do between falling into the fire and dying. Is it best to scratch our names on the wall? Find someone to make love with one last time? Screams in fear? Just scratch the walls?
Mr. President, these are really important questions. Please have god answer those things for us when we’re there peeing ourselves. Like a nice retirement would have been good. But blood stained last message to the world, I suppose that could work for me.
Feels like there should be large disruptive protests around wherever ICE is headquartered. Surely they have offices?
👀
Heh heh.
Wow, I hope the taxpayers put a FAT settlement in his pocket when he sues them. Kidnapped by the state for 10 days? Lawyers are salivating.
Vance is paying them a visit. Oh, looks like they sent their cousin to meet Vans. Oh they be dead. Short visit.
I’m not American so it’s kinda legitimate question.
Are there any good people working for ICE? Or is being an abusive racist cunt part of the requirement?
(I’m sure there are probably plenty of nice normal peoples working there but they are probably too afraid to stand up)
A bad apple spoils the bunch.
We tend to leave the spoiling part out of the metaphor for some reason…
There are no good people in ICE. It doesn’t matter how they present themselves outside of work, they’re all Fascist class traitors willingly upholding and legitimizing a Fascist regime, detaining and deporting citizens and immigrants alike ILLEGALLY, and filling the role of the Gestapo from Fascist Germany. Being abusive, racist, and a bastard probably isn’t mandatory for the role, but it’s the overwhelming majority of people who work there.
Do not pity or feel sorry for them, they’d kill you if they could get away with it.
I thought people were bitching about federal workers resigning in protest instead of staying and trying to slow the damage.
There’s without a doubt good people working for ICE, because the whole department isn’t just enforcers.
This is the thread for Facebook pitchforks, the thread for reason is that way —>
No. There are no good people working for ICE. They are hand picked to be racist and cruel.
Hand picked from a self-selected pool of the racist and cruel.
So the mailroom clerk was handpicked to be racist and cruel? I’m sure the custodial staff and maintenance crew were handpicked to be racist and cruel too, right?
ICE has “direct hire authority”. This means they can fill positions without any justification of their hiring process or that the competitive hiring process was used. This is NOT how the government is supposed to operate. The mail room clerks are all going to be family and friends of existing ICE employees. The cleaning staff will be from a 3rd party.
ICE is all hand picked and hand groomed evil, a new Nazi SS in its infancy.
There are no good people in ICE.
Boy, I sure do hate ICE right now so this is hard to do but you’re saying if someone works for ICE they are, by that fact alone, a bad person?
That’s an awful lot like forgoing due process and determining someone’s “guilt” because you said so.
I’m pretty disgusted at those who don’t have the integrity to do what’s right, to take a stand to the unlawful and immoral orders they’re being given. I wouldn’t blame anyone who used any amount of force e to defend themselves from ICE at this point since they have no reason to believe that their rights or due process will be respected and it may be their life on the line.
Respectfully, though, I think you’re wrong to paint with such a broad brush. Life can be easier to deal with in such stark black and white terms but it’s never that simple.
If your job is to put people in concentration camps
Yes
You are a bad person
Nazis were also just following order, but these dudes have the option to quit. They aren’t. Theyre still taking away people’s constitutional rights. Theyre still doing all of it. They can spend their weekend working at a homeless kitchen and go to church. Theyre still sending people to die in an over stuffed prison for the crime of not being white.
Edit: lol Of course youre using the “Well its not a poltical party in Germany in the 1930s so they cant be Nazis.”
Bro, just say you give the zieg heil and you love whats happening
I don’t disagree with anything you wrote until your edit.
I find your edit offensive and I am reporting your comment as I don’t really appreciate the implication that I am a Nazi or would give a zieg heil salute.
I won’t be dragged into a straw man argument by someone trying to get me to justify Nazis. I also won’t be baited with a false equivalence question like what is the difference between Nazis and ICE. That’s why I gave the definition answers.
I guess I don’t have the purity of all the other Lemmings here to be such an absolutist.
I find it offensive that we have people being thrown in concentration camps, you defend them, and then try play games to distance them.
But if youre. Ot an avsolutist against Nazis, then yes, to me, youre a Nazi. 10 people at a table and 1 of them is a Nazi, you have 10 Nazis.
I haven’t defended them. I disagreed with OPs broad generalization and offered an explanation and an example as to why. You may not like or understand why, but there is a distinct difference between defending a person or people who knowingly and willfully violate someones rights under the US Constitution and the law and recognizing that a person is not inherently bad simply because they have a job at an organization.
Let me be absolutely clear: calling me a Nazi is not only wildly inaccurate, it is deeply offensive and unacceptable. That term carries the weight of real historical atrocities — genocide, totalitarianism, and hatred — and to throw it around so carelessly shows a staggering lack of respect for history and the people who suffered under that regime.
Disagreement or difference of opinion is not justification for slander. If you have a criticism, make it with integrity and truth — not with baseless, inflammatory accusations. This kind of rhetoric doesn’t win arguments; it poisons them. So unless you have something factual and meaningful to say, I suggest you stop cheapening serious words and start behaving like an adult.
You could say there’s “some very fine people” that work there and it’d be accurate.
If you currently work for ICE and you haven’t quit, you’ve demonstrated you’re okay with going along with illegal and immoral actions. That makes you a bad person.
There might be an argument to say that not everyone who has ever worked for ICE is a bad person, but that argument holds little water in 2025.
Due process is required for legal judgements, not moral ones, FYI.
If you currently work for ICE and you haven’t quit, you’ve demonstrated you’re okay with going along with illegal and immoral actions. That makes you a bad person.
Single mother, works in a minor administrative clerical capacity for an Immigration and Customs Enforcement office, has two school age children and without this job she’s on the street and can’t take care of these kids. She desperately needs this job but is really upset about the news lately, contacting her representatives, protesting when she can and stands ready to offer shelter in her home to anyone in need of a safe space. Yet in this hypothetical, under your rules, not only do you claim that this person has demonstrated they’re okay with going along with illegal and immoral actions but that they’re also a bad person. No allowance for circumstance or the fact that this is an unprecedented situation.
Due process is required for legal judgements, not moral ones, FYI.
I am aware. I used the example to draw a parallel. I would have thought engaging in the same behavior that your upset about might make you stop and think; guess not.
A fascist is a fascist, doesn’t fuckin matter if they are “only doing their job”
A fascist is an advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.
A janitor is a person whose job is to clean and maintain a building or property.
A janitor can be a fascist but they can also just be a janitor.
If you want to claim that any level of culpability makes a person a fascist then I’d say if you’re American and of voting age you’re a fascist because you have culpability in what’s happening right now. If you’re a user of any American corporate product where that corporation contributed to the current administration then you’re a fascist because you have culpability.
I like how you are trying to steer the conversation in one way, in some sort of philosophical ideology. However, I don’t care. Fuck Nazi’s, doesn’t matter if their a struggling mom, idiot on the internet pretending to force a conversation, or ICE. Fuck em all.
And oh yeah, I totally have so much power as an individual to drive the piss ass politics in a country of 330 million. Right, it’s my fault?
Maybe your knowledge of Nazi Germany is lacking, because not everyone was a fascist there either… those people went to concentration camps or were killed. Guess what? My ass will eventually be on the chopping block, you evasive fool. I know I’ll be fighting when the time comes, you stay at home, pretend to be righteous over wherever you live and close the fucking blinds bootlicker.
Apply the So What principle: So what if I, as a private citizen, make a judgement about people who work for a government office? What’s the practical impact for this oh-so-unfairly-maligned hypothetical person you constructed? Nothing.
Now, what’s the practical impact when a government agency denies due process to people when it unlawfully detains them? Oh, yeah, that does seem like a real and substantive impact, doesn’t it?
I haven’t denied anyone’s rights to their life or their liberty, so you can take your false equivalency and shove it.
Apply the So What principle: So what if I, as a private citizen, make a judgement about people who work for a government office? What’s the practical impact for this oh-so-unfairly-maligned hypothetical person you constructed? Nothing.
It’s a hypothetical so I’m not sure how you’d measure it but you’re certainly creating a division and fostering an us/them mentality. What purpose does it serve to make a broad statement that’s backed only by emotion and supposition that anybody associated with ICE is a bad person? Other than to make you feel better and more righteous?
Now, what’s the practical impact when a government agency denies due process to people when it unlawfully detains them? Oh, yeah, that does seem like a real and substantive impact, doesn’t it?
It sure does! And we should all of us be against a government that does that. I think I could get on board with a statement like “Any person that knowingly and willingly helps the US government deprive any person of their rights in violation the US Constitution or the law is a bad person”.
That’s a lot of words for not a lot of results. Yes, I am in fact saying that by simple fact of working for ICE, you are a bad person, and I hate you.
One of the defining major differences between ICE goons and the MD guy they snatched off the street, as well as everyone else they’ve deported without due process, is that ICE is currently an arm of the government. They are inherently an extension of the current power structure, and by following these orders to randomly and wantonly deport people without notice or process, they are enabling it. Trying to come at this with the stance of “it’s not that simple, guys! Believe me!” is disingenuous at best, and sympathetic at worst.
Moreover, I have seen zero news about ICE officials stepping down or getting fired in disgrace for all this bullshit. Considering that, they are either wholly and happily complicit, or completely apathetic to the whole thing. Neither is good.
Ok. I prefer to approach a situation with reason and logic. It seems like you’d rather respond to anger and ignorance with anger and ignorance of your own. I hope that works out the way you expect.
Do you even hear yourself? Do you actually think these Fascist Goons are gonna patiently listen to your logical arguments and rhetoric, and just let you go? No, they won’t. They’re gonna swoop in, grab you off the street, and throw you into the back of a van before you can open your mouth. Trying to out-argue a fascist takeover is a fool’s errand; the only thing they respect is power for power’s sake. But hey, if you wanna try talking your way out of being illegally deported by Goons with subaverage IQs, be my guest.
I do hear myself and I’m not engaging with them currently. I’m engaging with people on Lemmy at the moment.
The truth is you don’t know what would happen if they came after me, neither do I. I suspect I’m very unlikely to be a target but I think there’s a pretty good chance I’d maybe end up in a position where I’d have to decide whether to intervene on someone else’s behalf, if this continues long enough.
Buddy, I don’t know how much clearer they need to be before you understand that they WILL start coming after American Citizens, of ALL types, so long as they don’t fall in line with the Fascist Regime. Hell, they’ve already started, just look at all the recent stories of people being detained at the borders over nonsense, like that couple in Vermont, or that guy in the southwest. Whether you like it or not, you and I are both targets, simply because we are willing to say ‘No’ to their demands. Even if it’s not you or I, this shit WILL get violent before we’re through, and no amount of logical argument or rhetoric will change that.
I’m sure when you get picked up and detained without due process all you’ll need to do is use reason and logic with them and everything will be fine. /s
I’m also sure that your first reaction to that was to snort in disbelief that such a thing ever would or could happen to you, even though it’s already happening to other US citizens. But sure, if you can fit in as a favored type of citizen, maybe it won’t happen to you (that’s the important thing, right?).
It’s time to stop clinging to the belief that things are normal in the United States. Logic, reason, and rule of law no longer apply. Eventually we’ll all have to choose a side: the easy one going along with the fascists, or the hard and probably dangerous one against them–yes, even your strawman single mother who is “very concerned” but needs that ICE job, has to choose.
You’re making a lot of assumptions. I’ve thought about what I would do if I got a visit from ICE. I actually pulled my gun out of the safe and cleaned and oiled it just to make sure it was in good working order. I think if they came to my house I would refuse to let them in and if they tried to force entry I’d use any force necessary to defend myself. That said, if there was a list of citizens to be rounded up I suspect I’d be pretty far down on it.
I don’t think things are normal in the United States however I don’t believe logic, reason, and rule of law no longer apply. Courts are still in session where I live, cases are still being tried, police are still on the streets and enforcing the laws.
My example that you incorrectly called a “straw man” was to demonstrate that making such a broad statement catches people tangentially related who might be stuck by circumstance. I realize a fictitious example isn’t the best but hoped it might help illustrate the point. If it’s easier to consider what’s happening with Tesla and Tesla vehicle owners that’s kind of a parallel. There are people who have had a Tesla vehicle long before the current craziness with Musk that may now find themselves caught in the middle simply because some years ago they bought a car that is now being associated with Nazis.
The Tesla brand is associated with fascists for a reason–Elon Musk is one, and perhaps even the most powerful one. The Tesla brand should become anathema for that reason. It should be a mark of shame to drive one now, no matter what it was a sign of before. Don’t tell me to feel as sorry for Tesla owners as for the people whose lives are being ruined by Musk and the trump regime as a whole. If they could afford to buy one then, they can afford to get rid of it and get something else. Yes, it’s too bad it turned out that way for them, but the blame for that belongs to Musk, not us.
What’s really too bad people being abducted and sent to prison camps. People who have served in the government being fired for no valid reason and the detrimental effects that will have on the rest of us and our society. The destruction of government functionality so it can be taken over and its resources divvied up between fascist oligarchs.
Yes, I’m more worried about the people who will lose their medical care as Medicaid is defunded by Congress, those who may miss payments or even completely lose their main source of income after thousands of Social Security workers were fired and the agency becomes more dysfunctional, those who are suffering or have already died because USAID was suddenly shut down, etc etc etc than I am about someone’s Tesla resale value or those who work for ICE in any capacity.
Look, everyone, this guy labelled himself as logical and reasonable, and his opponent as ignorant!
No, I didn’t call them ignorant, I said they’re responding to anger and ignorance with anger and ignorance. So are you.
Look at your replies. They’re combative and angry. I disagreed with OPs sweeping generalization and offered a different perspective. I offered examples to explain that perspective. You might not like how I view things but rather than reply with civility you lash out with anger.
I’m angry too but I learned a long time ago that acting in anger is rarely a good idea. Now I take a more even and measured approach and I prefer to view things from a more individualistic level.
Being calm doesn’t make you correct any more than being angry makes someone else wrong.
Are all Nazis bad people, or are there reasonable Nazis we should give the benefit of the doubt to?
Hi there Mr. Straw Man! 👋
Their sending legal inhabitants to death camps, where’s the distinction between ice and nazis?
Nazi noun Na·zi ˈnät-sē ˈnat- 1 : a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler
ICE abbreviation noun: ICE; singular proper noun: ICE 1. (in the US) Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
* without due process.
Remember folks, if they’ll do it to the most vulnerable, they’ll do it to the rest of us just ass soon as they feel its safe to do so. it is inevitable.
And for the idiots thinking we’re not in Nazis America… Plenty of germans said the same sort of things with Hitler’s take over in the early 1930’s.
claimed that the young American had admitted entering the US illegally from Mexico.
Unless the citizen was dumb enough to say such a thing, not impossible, this was a straight up lie and the officer should be in jail for submitting a false report.
They’re doubling down on that claim:
But a senior official with the Department of Homeland Security rejected the allegations. “The narrative being pushed about Jose Hermosillo is false,” the official said via email. “On April 8, Hermosillo approached Border Patrol in Tucson and stated he had entered the U.S. illegally through Nogales. He said he wanted to turn himself in and completed a sworn statement identifying as a Mexican citizen who had entered unlawfully.
I’m certain they have video evidence that this is the case and will release it soon so we can all see they were doing things by the book. /s
They probably asked him something like “Did you use an official checkpoint to get into the US from Mexico?” And he said “No” because he didn’t enter at all, but they interpreted it as he crossed illegally.
Naw
- based on the articles about this, that’s probably not what happened and they just flat out lied, just like they did in the other recent case of detained US citizen
- even if they DID ask that and he for whatever reason answered “no” and refused to elaborate and never bothered to mention that he was a US citizen (hint: not what happened - he said he was a citizen every step of the way), that is still not “admitting to being here illegally” and portraying it as such is a deliberate misrepresentation
Fascist don’t need your help, especially if you just have conjecture on your side.
I think his point was that they worded the question to make reasonable answers possible to be interpreted wrong to their benefit. In other words, they likely were trained to asked trap questions.
Even so, the guy said he told everyone he was a citizen. If someone asks me if I’m here on a visa and I respond “no” and then they arrest me and I’m like “I’m a citizen” you can’t then act like they were using trick questions for plausible deniability. The second I say I’m a citizen that goes out the window regardless of what I was asked. If the guy answered every question with “I’m a citizen and (answer)” I don’t think the result would be any different, so allowing them to hide behind “trick questions” obscures the fact that they are lying to get POC rounded up. They are lying and they don’t need “trick questions” because they don’t care what your answer is. You could answer the trick question “correctly” and still be rounded up. Anything suggesting that the fault lies in anything but the institution and its officers is a distraction imho. So I feel like “trick question” is a deflection/distraction and I have not read anything to even suggest that’s the case. It seems like they 1) didn’t believe him and 2) lied to cover it up. I have not read anything that suggests the citizen in question answered a question that may have been suspicious but I have read that he was not believed.
And even if the kids did say this thing, it would in no way prejudice his absolute right to remain in the country. Even if he did cross the border illegally without presenting at a port of entry, he would still have the right to enter and remain.
Official claimed Jose Hermosillo, who was visiting Arizona, was ‘without the proper immigration documents’
