You must log in or register to comment.
This is why I don’t join fandoms. It’s just nicer to like what I like and not have to deal with everybody else’s wrong takes.
Yeah, and all the cure-framing is fucked, but they failed to show this. They are mutants, so changing them into ordinary humans means at least re-writing all the cells in the body, which is way more drastic a change than what we now know as gender transition. This kind of changes is not a fucking cure, it is mutation of different kind, in the terminology of this universe
They are mutants, so changing them into ordinary humans means at least re-writing all the cells in the body, which is way more drastic a change than what we now know as gender transition.
Especially as for some of them, their Mutations are required for them to be compatible with life. You can’t meaningfully change that without risking death or serious injury.
It’s also rarely shown with much nuance. The cure more or less ends up being portrayed as a way to eradicate Mutants entirely, with the implication that it’ll be mandated, rather than as a way to improve quality of life for those with mutations that could harm it, like the one kid who destroyed all organic matter in the radius of a few kilometres, rather than a weaker one to limit a Mutation so it won’t cause issues, or remove it if they want.
I always hated this plot line in these movies. No one has any empathy for the struggles Rogue is going though. Everyone else can be both a living weapon and have a normal life, but Rogue has to choose. If you wanted to framed this as trans metaphor, everyone else looks like a bunch of bigots. Honestly, the more and more you breakdown what Xavier is doing, the more and more he just looks like a different kind of villain. Seriously, how many of the mutants powers ever get explored for non-combat reasons? If this was just about adults, it’d be one thing, but this guy is in charge of children who are being kept away from their parents.
But nope, in Storm’s eyes, Rogue is perfect just the way she is. As a living weapon.
I think this may have been were I started thinking there’s something wrong with Hollywood and comic book writers.
The Doom Patrol hits that plot point a lot harder than the X-Men. The tv series is excellent.
It really is fantastic as a show. The sex ghost episode is hilarious
Edit: also the phrase “disembodied chumbawumba” entered my lexicon from that show.
Seriously, how many of the mutants powers ever get explored for non-combat reasons? If this was just about adults, it’d be one thing, but this guy is in charge of children who are being kept away from their parents.
We do see glimpses here and there, but most of it takes background to the fighting, or is shortly ended because the school blew up, the rest of humanity ordered a genocide on all Mutants, and got caught in the crossfire, etc.
I feel like that X-Men could benefit from taking a leaf off of Transformers, and having a series set up after peace was made, when everyone’s trying to readjust to peacetime, and deal with all of that.
But nope, in Storm’s eyes, Rogue is perfect just the way she is. As a living weapon.
In fairness, Storm is shown to be wrong in saying that there’s nothing wrong with Rogue in the rest of the movie, and that she doesn’t need to be cured.
The tone of the movies always felt off. Someone, anyone should have called out Storm and sided with Rogue’s choice. Even if they disapprove of what Storm is saying, they just silently sat there.
The best response came right afterwards
I feel like having five dicks would be kind of cumbersome and much more difficult to use than just 1. Like, how do you aim when you pee?
What is up with the cartoon turtle in the background of this rofl
Just tape them together, like a fleshy gattling gun
I think these people exist, based on my observations of the toilets at my current workplace
Into the shower.
I imagine it to be like an udder but for piss
I know there are people with two, you could ask what they do ig
this👌but thumb and finger not touching, or two hands.
you did not just say that 💀
Spider Dijon mentioned
High five, my mind went straight to Mighty Boosh too
This one has been making the rounds, and I have to say, we need to consider that maybe the answer is The Last Stand is a very bad movie.
Look it’s exceptionally bad, but it does have Gandalf politely rejecting wolverines offer of a free surgical examination.
“I just want a cure to be an OPTION to those who want it.”
“OH SO YOU SUPPORT EUGENICS NOW?!”
Was it an option for Angel in that movie?
Gloves don’t help?
But what if she touches herself? Her power has a exception rule? She can’t exploit that?
She kills by sucking the life out of people. If she sucked the life of herself, it would just be replaced by itself.
Lmao i didn’t even get past “kills everything she touches” without my adhd brain flying away and imagining how sad and lonely she must be and how on order to have human touch, she’d have to find somebody either incapable of dying or who can realive themselves. Like a living-dead girl. Also I assumed she was gay for some reason.
You should definitely check out this 20 page short comic: https://imgur.com/gallery/wolverines-job-isnt-always-easy-to-do-I71V6
It’s basically that, and Wolverine goes in because his regeneration keeps him alive
(Edit: From Marvel’s Ultimate X-Men Vol. 1 #41)
Sheesh that’s kinda dark.
Damn, that’s a good comic. Dark superhero comics are definitely my thing; Worm/Ward (Parahumans universe by Wildbow, online fiction) are good recommendations if anybody likes this sort of thing
Jesus CHRIST. There was no other solution? I get the pragmatism, but… Fuck. This is like an actual mercy killing.
I’m not a big comic fan (I’ve only read small snippits like this), but this is from the “ultimates” storyline, which to my understanding is an alternate universe where things are… much bleaker than normal Marvel
That’s not even counting the guy that instantly dissolved everyone around him and the X-Men sent Logan to take him out.
Like Logan?
Nah, Wolverine was canonically cishet last I checked 🤷
That’s a pretty boring immortality if he never tried anything new
He’s one of Marvel’s biggest mary sues and overrated as fuck. I remember seeing somewhere, I think at Cracked, that on a Wolverine vs. Punisher comic, mr macho man finds out that Frank Castle has plenty of naked muscle men magazines, “It’s research!”
Wolvie’s reaction was a silent smirk that spoke “HAHA LOL UR GAY”The neat thing about a silent response from a fictional character is that it can be reinterpreted.
If someone was hoarding nude pics and told me they were for “research”, I’d smirk too. “Researching all night til their arm falls off.”
I mean that was a pretty standard response at the time, so maybe Wolverine is just echoing the attitudes of the time?
I do wonder this about immortals, do they live long enough for the white cells in their brain to solidify into pure inflexible dark grey matter, or are they in a constant state of flux that their attitudes change on a whim depending on their surroundings (essentially, forever mentally children)
At least in wolverines case, he isn’t truly, fully, immortal. His healing factor eventually slows to the point he gets old and dies. In the case if true immortality like Mr. Immortal, it is most likely part of the power that gives them immortality to also keep the body roughly the same, i.e in working order. Mentally they all probably go insane after a few hundred or thousand years, but the comics do not cover such large periods or accurately reflect the mental state.
His healing factor eventually slows to the point he gets old and dies.
Isn’t it usually that it gets interfered with, and that does him in?
Wolverine? He can die, can’t he? He’s just really really hard to kill, to my knowledge, and just regenerates really really fast. But if she touches somebody and they instantly die… That won’t make much difference. Unless he’s ACTUALLY immortal, rather than just effectively/virtually immortal and just really really hard to kill.
Her touch isn’t instant death, but it’s fast enough that it makes no difference to most people. His regeneration can keep up, but barely. And at the end of the first movie, he does touch her.
Except her power is to take other people’s powers. Theirs stops working shortly after contact is made. His regeneration might help for a few seconds… Until it stops working because she stole it.
It has been a while since I’ve seen the movie, so I looked it up to make sure. Her power is to borrow other people’s powers through physical contact. Essentially, if contact is short and he can regain his power fast enough (which he does), he’s fine. Those few seconds his regeneration helps with are all he needs.
That doesn’t do a whole lot to help with the touch issue this entire thread was about. When people talk about wanting human touch, they don’t mean just a half second tap.
He’s fine in the source material
Wolverine? He can die, can’t he?
Depends on the author and how “important” he is to the story. In the original civil war comic arc, a Nitro dude exploded him down to the shiny bones. Wolvie came back from that in 5 minutes. On the days of future past comic arc in the 80s, oldverine dies from a sentinel blast that also leaves him as just metal bones.
Ridiculous with it in the 2000s. In the old days it was he just heals faster than most and take a beating but he can still die. I remember one where he was sneaking onto a ship or something and was starving so he cannibalize his own arm which didn’t make sense. Also another one had a story about how he was in a concentration camp in WW2 and kept get incinerated and coming back. Just tons of dumb shit like that that made the character less interesting.
Huh? Rogue’s power is that she sucks power/energy out of other people, wolverine regenerates so he’s fine.
This happened in the movies. He survived, but was not “fine”.
He really gave her the gift of life 💦
Regeneration is his power. She takes powers. Regeneration won’t help him for very long.
X-Men’s in allegory for racism and/or homophobia. You can’t pretend to read these kind of scenes without remembering that. What they’re saying is there’s a cure to being gay or black. Think about that and think about storms response.
IMHO, it works better as an allegory for disability. Some people (higher-functioning autists) need acceptance, but I don’t think people with debilitating pain or immuno-defficiancy see their struggles as an inseparable part of their personality.
If it’s all just an allegory for racism, it’s definitely not great. “I can’t touch other humans without killing them” isn’t some stereotype or metaphor for discrimination, it’s just a literal disease. She was basically born as an asymptomatic carrier for ebola. What the hell does that have to do with race?
I agree as a disability allegory it’s better, but still off in this scenario. They are just too capable/cursed for it to be an appropriate metaphor. Storm lecturing Rogue would be like Daredevil lecturing a random blind person not to get eye transplants because they’ll hear better if they live without eyes. It’s pretty messed up.
It works for any marginalized group being discriminated against for who they are and who they’re born as. The point however though is that’s what it’s an allegory for. Y’all are all looking at this too literally. A perfect example of someone missing the forest for the trees. It’s trying to make that overall point. If people don’t remember to look at it in that context they’re missing the point of the story. It’s really just a lack of media literacy from a lot of people in here.
It’s like reading animal farm and not being able to get past the fact that the animals are cooperating. That ain’t the point. It’s the ability, or apparently the lack thereof, of being able to think about a concept abstractly.
That’s not an argument why it’s a good metaphor for racism or homophobia. You’re just saying “it’s a metaphor.”
For what? What - specifically - about Rogue’s condition maps to an experience that occurs in the real world? That she was born that way? That makes it an equally valid metaphor for, like, ugliness.
I know what a metaphor is. I’m asking what is the metaphor? What are we supposed to see and learn from Rogue’s condition? That humans treat each other poorly because we have trouble reconciling our differences? That’s the same metaphor as all the X-Men.
Having examples like her just muddies the waters, because people like her and cyclops are actual living proof that some mutants genuinely are inherently dangerous to others.
A mutant baby can kill its entire family. Humans are at least partially justified in fearing them, or fearing having a child that’s one of them. Not because they’re bigots, but because a mutant child has a much greater chance of causing harm.
That can map to disability - childhood, adolescent, and adult behavioral disorders are a very real issue - but that’s a gross thing to intentionally associate with race.
My brother what the hell? I just made a whole comment about how you’re looking at it too literally and you’re missing the Forest for the trees by focusing on her instead of the general point. Then you made an entire comment focusing specifically on her.
As for whether or not it’s a good metaphor, well that was never the question or anything either of us talked about. But I think yes X-Men is an excellent metaphor for discrimination based upon your birth and who you are. It’s extremely meaningful for a lot of people and I think it’s changed a lot of Minds over the decades.
Lol I’m not taking it literally, I’m taking it analytically. It’s entirely valid to dissect a metaphor and analyze what it means and why. An allegory is itself an argument - a way of using fictional elements to deliver non-fictional ideas. It’s normal to argue for or against the allegory as being a useful delivery system for those ideas.
If it’s not a good metaphor… well, that’s exactly what the rest of us are talking about when we critique the Rogue/Storm thing. You are the only one in the room that doesn’t understand that we are all calling that a bad metaphor.
We know the forest is there, we just think there’s a big stupid tree that is actually blocking our view.
Edit - and for the record, I’m not critiquing the entire forest! The rest of the metaphor is pretty good. But those examples really do undercut their own delivery of the idea.
Storm’s comment was directed at Rogue. The one who was excited about a cure for her horrible condition that makes it so she can’t touch another human being without fucking them up. If literally anyone else had asked if it was true there was a cure then your point would make sense but Rogue actually does need the cure. It was shitty writing to have it be Rouge that got that lecture and people are right to call it out.
What they’re saying is there’s a cure to being gay or black. Think about that and think about storms response.
Then what should one think about when reading this?:
https://imgur.com/gallery/wolverines-job-isnt-always-easy-to-do-I71V6
Again, rogue is a bit outside of this allegory. Yes, I am happy XMen has that origin. And it needs to be kept up. It can be subtle or it can be in your face, but if it isnt about accepting others, different or not from you, and working together for the better, then its not XMen.
But Rogue wanting to suppress or whatever her mutant powers in order to experince human contact without harm… It has some parrelles maybe.
