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These Gazans are going to get eliminated, nobody wants to help them, just ask Kuwait and Lebanon. Israels tolerance for terrorism was the only reason they were still alive to begin with, and the murder spree has broken that tolerance.
Imagine if you were an Israeli citizen and there were religious fanatics coming into your towns and murdering and kidnapping everyone, what would be your response and expectation of your government?
You missed the part in which Israeli citizens get indoctrinated since kindergarten and the one in which they have been trying to colonize whatever is around them because their imaginary friends told them to.
Well your country may have been on stolen land, what if you had a group of people near you that wanted to take the land back by force; are you willing to give up your own house?
The whole question is absurd, you’re not going to, and you’re also not going to let them continue attacking you, because your desire to save your family from rape and murder is greater than your empathy.
are you willing to give up your own house?
That argument falls when it’s well-known that the gov deliberately pushes efforts for more illegal settlements… so yeah, not really your house…
if I was living in a stolen house then yes, I would rather our government come to a fair agreement with the people… to act as if we’d all just condone a genocide when many of us don’t even have a say in the matter is just nonsensical.
you’re trying to rationalize away an active genocide like it’s still the era of colonization…which again was wrong
i think we should form sub nations with the Indians we dominated over here but we’re wAyyy too late for that, we’re not for this.its something actively going on. you seem to be forgetting that part
So you live on indigenous land you’re saying, but you’re not in a stolen house?
palestinians were established well before israel existed.
When are you going to drop the “won’t somebody please think of the children” bomb?
If my house was built on land that was taken after murdering the people there, then I would deserve to have my house burned down, feelings are irrelevant.
So non-native Canadians and the Americans should give up all their land back to the indigenous and move back to Europe?
Well yes, in practice that’s not feasible, but we should be giving land back to native groups. In reality humans have migrated throughout history, I don’t disagree with the concept of settling necessarily but groups that were subject to genocide and forced expulsion deserve reparations.
You mean; imagine you were a Palestinian citizen and religious fanatics came into multiple West Bank towns in summer 2023 and set them on fire, and it turns out the Israeli government actively supported the attacks and sent the military to back those settlers and shoot any Palestinians who fought back against the settlers. What would be your response and expectation?
It always amazes me how Israelis act as if October 7 happened completely out of the blue unprovoked. The first 9 months of 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in 20 years with over 240 dead, and the Israeli government refused to prosecute any settlers and instead armed them further. Even the Pope got involved in September 2023 to formally condemn Israeli settlers for vandalizing churches and Ben Gvir defended the attacks saying it was revenge on Christian anti-semitism. Every Palestinian was aware of these attacks, even Hamas threatened to retaliate if the attacks on West Bank towns didn’t stop and Netanyahu decided to do respond by further increasing settler support.
Anyone who acts in the name of god is using delusion to justify madness. There is no third party. We are all each a part of the larger whole.
Hot take: we all have the devine right to exist, no exceptions. If Israeli citizens are so religious and devine, where is the humanity, love and compassion for the women and children of Gaza? The media is pumping out anti-humanism rhetoric, imaging the Palestinian as less than human. An animal. But these are opinions of comfortable people with access to internet, shelter, food and water. Imagine when the new children of Israel actually get to Gaza, and realise what they have done.
Poor girl, I hope she lives through this.
Why the use of the word “poor”? She’s being brave as hell and using her publicity in a very productive manner.
Please don’t ask me to explain my use of english 🙈
I hope for the best, but I know how this world works. Her death will not move mountains, just add another name to the list of innocent people that have died from this “conflict”. It will be a blip across the screen for maybe a day, and then the next horrible thing will happen to take it’s place.
Save the obituary for if it plays out that way though. Letting your mind run wild with pre-emptive defeatism depletes your energy without giving you any productive results. I’m sorry if I sound patronizing but I see so much of this lately and I think we need to address it more because so many people are paralyzed in fear and hopelessness at a time where maintaining one’s agency is crucial.
It’s so often the first comment I see on an article… Sad and defeated. Kind makes me feel apathetic. So I appreciate you posting that
Thank you for posting this comment - I fully agree.
Pre-emptive defeatism certainly depletes energy.
Thank you for the explanation. I don’t think you’re wrong, but I do think you underestimate the protective power of name recognition. It’s stupid it works this way, but simply by being there she offers some additional protection to all the other brave individuals participating and thus reduces the chances that they all become names on that list.
I wish others in her position could realize that fact and be brave enough to put themselves in harms way to reduce the risk us mere mortals face.
Waaa look at mee i make entire comments over semantics!
I’d encourage you to read the reply from SassyRamen and the subsequent discussion there. It’s not about being “semantically correct” it’s about understanding.
I understand why people are pedants
technical correctness is the best kind.
Not really a girl anymore either. She’s an adult. She is a woman.
And she’s hardly poor for sure.
Okay, that’s definitely suicidal though. Like, is she actually expecting to get through? The Israelis are executing medics and children over there.
The amount of stuff she’s been involved in she definitely has main character syndrome and fully believes this’ll work out well.
I don’t want it to sound like im belittling the effort. Its brave as all shit and the best cause I can think of, but still.
Imagine sitting on a bus and looking at a woman who refuses to move to give up her seat and thinking “man, she must have main character syndrome”. If only we had you back there to diagnose her, maybe history would be different now.
Yeah man imagine having a time machine
Wow because someone wants to get of their ass and do something to try to better the world they have main character syndrome. Well then I wish more people had it so they could get off their lazy asses and try to better the world.
No i was more thinking that because she’s become the face of planetary eco-warriorism she’ll have started to internalise the concept that she has plot armor. Which isn’t real in real life.
That is happening entirely in your head, not reality
Maybe it will work out. You know what won’t though? You doing nothing and very much belittling her on the Internet.
Im just saying nobody with all their marbles would seriously believe it will end in anything but their own death.
Pretty wildly demeaning to take someone doing something brave and putting her body on the line for people in need as “main character syndrome”. What have you done lately?
What have you done lately?
what they have done lately has zero effect on whether the discussed move is smart or not. that is not how stuff works.
This has wildly more impact than anything you’re doing and what most people like you are doing (voting for more genocide)
So when someone doesnt vote they’re the problem, and when they do vote they’re the problem?
How’s the average person supposed to do anything?
Nobody said either of those
It was the part where they said (voting for more genocide) that made me think they said either of those. Sorry. I’ll work on my reading comprehension I guess.
oh no. i didn’t give up to logical fallacy so now i am voting for a genocide? now that is some debate championship stuff. how was kindergarten today?
We were not talking smart or not, the discussion was about main character syndrom/brave.
brave
I was talking about the fact that “what have you done” is childish effort to protect yourself from an argument.
and there is thin line between brave and stupid. only the person with main character syndrom will try to shield a grenade with their body hoping the plot armor will protect them.
Some people are willing to die for others. They don’t think they have plot armor, they are aware that they will probably die. It’s not stupidity, it’s bravery. I find it sad that people tend to belittle this kind of action.
they are aware that they will probably die. It’s not stupidity, it’s bravery.
if you expect to die and still go through with your plan, that it is the definition of stupidity. if you think you are so important that your death will move millions and finally change things, that is the main character syndrome that is being discussed.
in reality, she will get two news cycles and that will be it. nothing will be changed and she will be dead. if she really wants to do something, it is much smarter to do anything where she does not die in the process.
I agree. Thunberg is a real hero. I feel like a coward in comparison. We owe it to the people standing up and fighting back
Let’s not call being ready to give your life for a cause being suicidal. Desperate, sure, but not that
I don’t think the expectation is they will get through. The goal is to create a scandal that will increase international attention and pressure to make them stop.
If they hurt Greta I predict there will be a lot of backlash due to her fame and popularity.
I don’t think sinking this aid vessel would do anything to change the public conversation. The people who are aware already either condemn Israel or support the genocide. The unaware will not care about a handful more dead innocents.
The bottom line is that Israel is openly and proudly committing atrocities and the international community is not willing to stop it. Only a military intervention could dissuade the IDF.
Publicly murdering a well-known pretty white girl is the kind of thing that might get the public on-board with military intervention
“she shouldn’t have been there anyways”, “must have been the houthis with their magic long-range rockets”, etc etc.
Good on her for standing up to what she believes in… but I don’t really see it changing anyone’s opinions if she’s unfortunately murdered, but I hope I’m just pessimistic.
Stop giving Israel weapons that enable them to commit their murders, and they’ll stop.
They are making plenty of those themselves though.
With imported fuel, metal and more advanced parts.
Yes, of course, but I believe a broader trade embargo will be even harder to sell than a weapons embargo.
Also a great way to interconnect the climate and Palestinian struggles
I wish I could agree with you, but the situation in Gaza looks more and more like something we’ve seen before. After the end of World War 2, the world reacted with shock at what had been done to the Jews - murder has never been committed on such a grand scale and in such organized fashion. Jews had been dehumanised in public long before, being equated to rats and other vermin. The Zionists currently holding on to power in Israel are using the same kind of rhetoric against Palestinians. However, one difference between then and now is that the Rwanda genocide taught us that the world is entirely capable of sitting back and watch the horror unfold, even though we’re all fully informed of what’s going on. A ship of brave volunteers being sunk would cause a stern letter or at best sanctions. Israel can act with utter impunity as long as they’re backed by their big brother Uncle Sam.
Israel can act with utter impunity as long as they’re backed by their big brother Uncle Sam.
What is to be done? In WW2, partisans helped stop the holocaust. Palestine is such a controlled area, far from the homes of most of us, it feels like there is no action that we can do to even slow the murder we are watching, while our governments cheer it on. So it’s not surprising when people start shooting Israeli embassy staff or attacking anything connected to Israel they can find.
I don’t think people want to sit back, this violence strikes a chord in anyone with empathy for innocent people. We can’t directly stop the IDF, but there are people, companies and manufacturers in many countries that are supporting this. We need to stop the supply of weapons and components at their source, most of which comes from the US.
And the American arms industry is the backbone of the military industrial complex, bringing in vast amounts of money to the US every year. The world’s biggest arms exporter can only benefit from someone else’s war. Without that industry, my guess is the United States treasury would become completely overwhelmed by their sovereign debt and collapse very quickly, so the government on either side of the aisle will protect it with all their might.
Hasn’t her fame faded a bunch in recent years though?
Also, if executing medics, responders and children won’t cause a scandal, this won’t.
The media stopped reporting on her for the most part. She’s still going strong for the people paying attention
If they hurt Greta I predict there will be a lot of backlash due to her fame and popularity.
There will be a lot of “thoughts and prayers”, a lot of “how dare you”, also lots of “this is a diplomatic incident” sprinkled with maybe sanctions if ever… and that’s it, just words.
I hope i’m wrong.
I keep imagining Israeli soldiers screaming “it’s anti semetic!” just like South Park “It’s coming right for us!” to excuse every hail of bullets.
Omg she is gonna get herself killed
Omg
sheIsrael is gonnaget herselfkilledherStill it’s pretty probable when you go over there and I always liked her so that sucks
It’s about framing for me. Too much blaming the children not enough blaming the Israeli Drone Smart Bomb (brought to you by the US Government & Microsoft).
Not to mention all the people already talking about her in the past tense.
She’s got more guts than the idiots who mock & criticise her.
People who mock her just blow my mind. Even worse when she was still underage. People were like: yeah i put a “Fuck Greta” sticker on my shitty car, that will teach that 15 year old girl to shut the fuck up.
I always viewed her as the girl who just cried and everyone said respect for that. I thought it was a bit dumb and cringe.
I’m glad to see her do things like this. It changed my mind. Respect to her.
You fell victim to a deliberate smear campaign designed to paint her in an uncharitable light. The neoliberal ghouls tried to use her image to greenwash their enterprise and she resisted. When she became aware of how she was being used she shifted strategies and the media dropped her like a sack of bricks and allowed the conservative smears to dominate the narrative about her. She was essentially radicalized by her experience trying to appeal to the powers that be and finding out first hand that they had no interest in correcting course. No corporate media would want her real story to become common knowledge.
I don’t believe so. I saw that in class, and she wasn’t portrayed in a wrong way. Most people had positive impressions about her. I just felt that she didn’t do anything this hard, and saw that she really was here for the cameras.
I’m glad to see she’s doing these kind of things now
I used to be critical of her, I thought she was just a kid being used by her rich parents as a mouth piece. But she has kept her course and changed my mind completely, truly very few people in the world would have courage to do something lile this. I hope she comes back alive from this, we need more people like her.
I thought everyone hated her. I could have sworn that like a year ago online discussion was nothing but how terrible she is.
There’s always been very vocal criticisms of her from people who don’t agree with her (for whatever reason they may have). But since she first started her activism, over a decade ago, no one I personally know has had a negative view of her. The people who don’t like her are very vocal about it, but on the whole I’ve always assumed she’s well liked.
I’ve personally been a fan of hers since I found out about her, and every time I hear about her doing something I basically always go “hell yeah”
Me too. But I always feel like people like here are abandon by us because if I go anywhere other then these left spaces, she gets crucified and there’s no defense
Part of it is the fact that there was an absolutely vicious smear campaign against her character when she first started speaking out. It did a lot to mark her as “cringe”, which made people dismiss her.
Then why was there not an effort to counter that smear campaign. We all saw it but did nothing except let it go on.
It was things like that which has made me so pessimistic and hateful of that left as a whole. I see people today here on Lemmy so passionate and angry at trump. Yet also ineffective for the past decade.
Yeah, let me just spin up my bot farm paid for by me to counter the other bot farms by the corporate interests and mega donors
You brilliant son of a bitch, that’s exactly what we need… An anti bot bot farm… Where users can download an app and join a pool of users to fight propaganda online… I have no idea how that is supposed to work… But yeah…
Whatever you need to tell yourself. You people will drive 8 hours to stand in the rain yelling just to go back home with no progress. You’ll come online every day and cry about trump. But actively engage people outside these echo chambers, that’s impossible something something bot farms.
What do you mean by “you people?”
Short Kings
Alright smart guy, what’s the plan then? Please enlighten us dumb and incompetent leftists with the work of pure genius you’re clearly keeping up your sleeve about how to counter the corporate media and their billions. We’re all so excited to hear it.
Stop being dumb and incompetent. Whatever you’re doing now, do the fucking opposite because what you all have been doing is fucking terrible. It’s like asking Toronto Maple Leafs how to win the cup. Truth is, do the opposite of whatever you’ve been doing. To do that, you first have to admit there’s a problem otherwise there’s no need to change. Wouldn’t it be nice to see people who fail, change course before they hit rock bottom. Problem for us is rock bottom will be prison camps overseen by Dan Bongino.
Stop telling each other “don’t wrestle with pigs it only blah blah blah”
Stop telling each other to avoid social media.
Create content.
Upvote any content, don’t be a snob, support content.
Don’t leave people hanging or turn on them the minute the right put out smear.
At one point we were all over everything and then… We all pulled back.
I shouldn’t open Facebook and find racist, sexist, homophobic garbage flooding the comments unchallenged. Push back. Troll the worst offenders. Flood the mild ones with truth and receipts. The right never lets a narrative die and neither should we.
We need to keep the public eye on the chaos, cruelty, and corruption. We’ve already forgotten about Taco. That’s on us. If we don’t keep it fresh and visible, we lose. Period.
There are a thousand places to improve. But no one admits there’s a problem. And if no one admits it, no one changes. And if no one changes we lose.
Check it out.
https://lemmy.world/comment/17420242
If she was a Republican there would be no webpage online without their base using this to show how evil and murderous and blood thirsty the left is. The left will debate a bit on these posts and then go play helldiver for a few hours. The effort across political aisles is asymmetrical. It’s not just due to bots. It’s the average leftist being all talk
There are people creating things but it all feels like when it gets to us, we drop the baton whereas the right > carry it all the way.
You hang out toouch in right wing echo chambers
when she was younger she was paraded by libs for green washing, the media either hated her or loved her.
when thise libs realised she isn’t a grifter the mass media either ignored her or kept on hating her.
She’s got more guts than most, even those like me who respect and agree with her, and fear for her life.
Our shitbag politicians in the US even nag her, Lindsey Graham tweeted about ‘hoping they know how to swim.’ I hope Lindsey Graham falls down some stairs and never gets up.
That closeted queer deserves a far more painful end. A long, protracted one. Maybe being eaten feet first by Randy Fine.
Can we not call people closeted queers as an insult please
He’s a stomach curdling old psychopath and should be put into an old folk’s home. Better?
I hope one of Lady G’s male escorts outside him, which destroys his political career.
Wishing them success next time
Hey, someone trying to do something that isn’t for themselves. No wonder conservatives hate her guts.
Damn, I never heard of her before, thank you for sharing
They celebrate her death in Israel by making pancakes.
Deeply unwell society.
We’re talking about it 20 years later, hope more people read it. RIP.
Guess that’ll be a similar page for Greta soon and 20 years later someone will post that and a lot will comment back with “Who?”.
She already has a page, it will be a larger section on her many achievements.
Following the incident, an Israeli military investigation concluded that Corrie’s death was the result of an accident and that the bulldozer operator had limited visibility.
We investigated ourselves and found that we didn’t murderl her, and that we aren’t committing genocide. Hurray!
Big respect.
I’m scared for her.
I’m monitoring that bloat in a online tracker, I’m stressed too.
if a fraction of us were a fraction of her the would would me a much better place.
How can I monitor her too?
i think it’s the right ship
Damn, that is not a big boat and could easily be destroyed. Cool website and god speed to Greta.
Pls fix these typos lol I agree with your message tho
There is dying, and there is dying a good death.
Greta Thunberg will die a good death. And she will be one of the few our descendants that they can point to show that humanity had a fan.
Her actions are guarantee to that.
Greta Derangement Syndrome
I was in my mid 30s when I Greta came onto the world stage and I want to be like her when I grow up…
She was also immediately identified as such a threat to status-quo that a lot of effort went into associating her name with “cringe” and people pushed that kind of reaction real hard and it worked. I cannot believe how many arguments I had with other environmental leftists and liberals on places like reddit who hated her but had no idea why.
“Her message is great, but maybe we don’t want her representing these causes” is the line a lot of people defaulted to, and when pressed, proceeded to drop the flimsiest and most half-assed reasoning like “Well her parents are wealthy so it looks bad” or “she’s going to be a distraction” and other nonsense where people simply couldn’t connect the lines and realize they were already influenced by manufactured “online reactions” and memes that associated her name with a “child doing public speaking” which makes people really uncomfortable.
Now she’s an adult, she’s remained consistent in her tone, messaging and passion, and people STILL connect her to “child making an ugly face while shaming grown ups” and this is why she’s in so much danger right now. She’s a threat to power and they used a lot of their bigger cards to smear her enough that a large portion of the world wouldn’t mourn if she were “accidentally” killed in service of her messages.
What a brave woman.
It’s clear that the israelis are free to murder who they like. Only the risk of negative publicity dissuades them and since most corporate media is Zionist supporting, this really makes everyone who stands up to these monsters a potential target.
israel is concerned about losing the support of the west, after trump called for ceasefire and started make deals with saudis and Qatar
Only the risk of negative publicity dissuades them
What? Killing journalists, medics and shooting at diplomats is positive publicity?
No of course not but these killings tend to be swept under the rug by the media or get drowned out in the sea of atrocities being committed.
Somebody like Greta being killed would cause a media storm which is why I don’t think the Zios would try as much as they would like to. Killing female activists is a specialty. See Rachel Corrie.
See Rachel Corrie.
Which i hadn’t known about until today.
She’s not the first to try. Israel doesn’t want a repeat of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla from 2010. Israel will sabotage her boat so she can’t sail. Greta won‘t get anywhere near Gaza.
Breaching a naval blockade in times of war is very serious business.
Well, the previous attempt was already attacked by drone strikes, most plausibly Israeli drones strikes or strikes by another terror state allied to Israel.
but by placing notable people in there (who are genuinely risking their lives) will bring more attention, deter an attack, and bring so much more attention if there’s one.
True bravery is using yourself as a human shield. unlike the mosquito protocol
You hope. It isn’t the ones who know who you are that push the button. You hope…
