Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.
I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we’d sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual. I thought she’s just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: “I’d be very worried and look for you everywhere”, “I’d sue the city”, “I’d tell your mother exactly what happened and say I’m sorry”, and “I’d kill the guy who kidnapped you”.
She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like “if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?” But at this point, I think she’s finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I’m sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?
Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.
If she consistently behaves like this when you make a mistake, then you are being emotionally abused.
The “be on the street to greet her as her Uber arrives” is a giant red flag by itself. It’s about her controlling you. You should run, believe me.
Classic coercive control, what used to be called brainwashing. It’s emotional abuse.
I don’t think it’s gaslighting. Gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their perception of reality. This is being angry at someone.
I can’t really relate. Is it really that dangerous where you live? We probably live in different countries but I don’t have CCTV in the residential area where I live. And usually in the summer, it’s still bright enough at 10pm an people are still around and it’s safe enough for women to walk home alone. At least in most places.
We live in Taiwan, it’s pretty safe afaik, also CCTV is everywhere here especially in and around the big cities.
So, London?
I get that you’re trying to get more info to help OP out better, but I think that it’s better to drop this “where are you from?” talk. Privacy-wise it’s rather problematic, you know? [Sorry for the uncalled advice.]
U ain’t wrong…
While info is useful, it ain’t worth breaking opsec for it
OP gave some clues, though. I think the comment wit “London” was meant to be a joke. But it’s true that this kind of surveillance is common in Britain, some parts of Asia and some random big cities. And OP knows how to write the time of the day properly, so they’re certainly not from the USA. 😉
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
In the strictest sense perhaps, but I dont think a criminal could make something of the knowledge that I am from Germany.
As a wise man once said, “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t after you.” Oh wait, that was Kurt Cobain, not a wise man.
Jokes aside, don’t assume that a piece of info about someone else is fine to share, because it is for you. OP likely has their reasons and that’s to be respected. (NB: this is coming from someone who doesn’t mind even sharing their city online.)
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
I am from Germany
If you were really from Germany, you’d never have given that much personal information up voluntarily!
Lmao it was a joke because London is known for their extremely extensive CCTV network
Then I derped. My bad!
Haha, our city has a much lower crim rate than London actually.
Yeah, sometimes perceived reality and the real reality are two things. And there are places where you can’t walk on the streets as a woman. I’m not sure if it’s about fear in your case. Or just because you broke your promise but there isn’t any fear involved.
Anyways, in relationships general advice is to talk to each other. Ask her what’s bothering her. Maybe it’s a pretend reason and there is something deeper that’s bothering her. Maybe this was the reason. Maybe she just had a bad day.
Unless it happens regularly or there are other factors to it, I wouldn’t necessarily attribute it to malice or be a manipulation strategy…
To answer your specific question, in this example, no she’s not gaslighting you. Gaslighting is a special form of lying intent on having you doubting your own reason, judgement, and even memory, in favor of someone else’s.
In this case, it sounds like she’s afraid of her own neighborhood, and is depending on you to make her feel safe. Were I in your position, I would talk to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
No, this is abuse. Being scared of where you live doesn’t justify abusing your partner. Missing someone’s text doesn’t justify this kind of behaviour. The silent treatment is abusive and not the way mature adults communicate with their partners. The fact that he calls the attention seeking follow up “the usual” also shows the extent of the problem, especially when it’s pretty clear she expects him to provide the “correct” response. This post has so many red flags I thought it was a communist party parade.
Sure all of that is true. But also outside the scope of the direct question.
It’s a response to your second paragraph which is “she’s not gaslighting you and you should reward her abusive behaviour by moving to a nicer neighborhood”.
“She not gaslighting” was the first paragraph.
Looking back I don’t see anything I wrote, that says they should move, or anything about abuse at all.
My second paragraph recommended a conversation. One which I’m sure would illuminate more of her thoughts; Possibly exposing inconsistencies in her logic, if she is genuinely being manipulative and abusive.
Or possibly we’re both wrong, and reading things that aren’t actually written. You’ve certainly proven a tendency for that with what I’ve written.
Looking back I don’t see anything I wrote, that says they should move
This you?
I would talk to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
Gaslighting me in a thread about gaslighting… Brilliant
That is me. Numerous people have called me “The most literal person I know”.
I wrote only exactly what I meant.
I would TALK to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
And literally… Advocating Talking about something, is not advocating Doing that thing.
That’s legitimately not gaslighting.
And gaslighting is 100% real thing, but I always think of this Rick and Morty clip now when someone brings it up:
You might want to X-post to c/relationshipadvice as well. That being said, the only one responsible for kidnapping anyone is the kidnappers. And no one should expect their friends or lover to kill their kidnappers. It would likely get you killed in the attempt. On top of this, these are all hypotheticals.
Someone who is using hypotheticals that they made up in their head against you is more worried about themselves than you.
It is not my place, but this person sounds like someone I wouldn’t even want to be friends with, let alone date. Friends are there to build each other up, not tear them down and add anxiety.
If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
and expecting your partner to kill for you.
Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical
And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.
There’s just too much context and subtlies that we can’t know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.
Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.
Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.
Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?
Ok, status quo.
Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?
Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.
This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner’s part.
Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.
… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
and that’s missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn’t leave a business card behind, so he wouldn’t have clue who to kill 😂
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?
It sounds like she was concerned about the Uber driver and didn’t feel like you didn’t make her feel safe. I think it’s an overreaction on her part but it’s still real feelings.
You can’t win those arguments, you just have to stay calm and say that you’re sorry for not coming down as she was arriving. Then maybe ask if the driver made her feel uncomfortable or whatever.
She doesn’t want answers, just empathy and a feeling that you care about her safety.
speak Faroese.
Speak Icelandic
speak both and slowly devolve into gibberish
Speak Finnish and then slowly devolve into Estonian
My god, the amount of language I have to learn is monumental it seems
Has any of you guys commenting even thought that they live in an overly dangerous place and she was genuinely scared?
Of course, waking him in the middle of the night was over the top and maybe a red flag, but anxiety can do that to you.
What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?
Who has CCTV in a residential street, that isn’t dangerous to walk through? Nowhere where I live, but I’ve been to some sketchy parts of Manila for example where my local friends would freak out at the thought of walking home from the corner alone. (“Oh my god, do you have a death wish? You can’t let them drop you anywhere that isnt directly your actual door! Someone will kidnap or kill you!”)
I think her behaviour was somewhat understandable if she was genuinely scared and felt let down by him because he seemingly didn’t care for her safety.
We all act irrational sometimes when we are scared, that doesn’t mean everyone has a personality disorder or someone even suggested schizophrenia. Seriously people! Cut others some slack for some irrational emotions every now and then.
OP, tell your girlfriend that you love her and care about her and that you’ll make an effort to be more thoughtful of her safety and her fears in the future. Because this just might be it. She felt unsafe and that you didn’t care if something happens to her. She probably had these thoughts on a loop in her head since she got home.
I’m generally pretty generous when it comes to realizing I’m hearing one side of the story and that it’s always much more complicated.
But, dear God man, if what he says is even remotely true and she was hovering over him while he was sleeping, and then when he awoke she asked if he would murder someone for her, and then what he plans to do with their cat after the murder, that’s not just being “genuinely afraid” and acting irrationally when in the middle of being very afraid.
She might be suffering from some anxiety that she needs to address, but let’s not play down how disturbing this is…especially because he called it “the usual.”
would you kill the guy for me?
You know, the usual.
Abandon ship, my dude.
None of that is gaslighting. However, it’s a red flag.
Agreed. Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. Get her some help, or get far, far away.
No, it doesn’t. Nothing here screams fear of abandonment. It screams insecurity, it screams anxiety, it screams mentally unhealthy, but this doesn’t say anything that could highlight BPD, or any other disorder.
It absolutely does, and I’m getting the vibe this is personal for you. This is not about you.
It absolutely does not. I’m not sure what you guys aren’t reading here, but the very first paragraph is about her wanting HIM to greet her when she arrived home in the Uber.
Being scared of being kidnapped is not fear of abandonment.
Y’all aren’t helping him if you’re telling him the wrong reasons to do the right thing. That ends up hurting both.
I have first hand personal knowledge of Borderline disorder. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Jumping in, I also have a lot of BPD experience (example, a marriage of well over 10 years).
This is very BPD-adjacent. I’m not saying OP’s gf has it per se, because there is no way we can know from here, but this is definitely on brand.
If you read between the lines, the social conversation could written as this:
“Heading home, I need support”
“I’ll support”
<Doesn’t support>
<She feels abandoned, fight or flight kicks in and it turns her attachment-avoidant, results in silent treatment>
<OP gives space, which is interpreted as further abandonment>
<OPGF can’t take it anymore, and asks questions that feel like they’re out of left field because in fight-or-flight kicks in, clear thought is nearly impossible>
<OP finally gives reassurance that he didn’t abandon her>
<Normalcy continues>
[email protected] read through this comment chain, therapy is the answer here.
This is not gaslighting, but it is odd.
What would have happened if you had just said “sorry I’m really busy with work today and won’t be able to meet you at the drop off”?
If this would cause her to act the same way, then there’s something wrong. Maybe she recently did a true crime binge and is feeling insecure about her safety? Or maybe she’s showing signs of mental illness. If you guys are in your early 20s, that’s when schizophrenia typically shows up, and can definitely have some paranoia to it. But, you’d need to get a professional to diagnose something like that.
If it wouldn’t cause her to act like this, then she’s probably just pissed you didn’t do what you said you would do. Maybe you have a track record of this kind of behavior and she’s starting to get tired of it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder
“Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined emotional abandonment.”
Run. She may decide to do the old murder/suicide if she thinks you’re going to leave her.
Holy shit you gotta love the Internet with people, based on this one story, thinking it makes sense to warn that she might be planning a murder suicide. Lol wow.
also why does it have 22 upvotes? very scary.
Really? No.
Borderline personality disorder is a special kind of crazy, yes, but it’s severe abandonment anxiety at it’s core. I hate how much BPD gets thrown around, because it’s quite a bit more benign than people understand.
This situation doesn’t tell us ANYTHING about any mental disorder she may or may not have.
IT DOES tell us that she is not a healthy individual and he needs to fucking run because we don’t want to find out what really is wrong with her.
She wanted him to let her know when he got home so she could meet him at the door. To know he was there. And then punished him for forgetting, in a very irrational way. That is the definition of the fear of abandonment.
No, SHE wanted him to meet HER at the Uber when SHE got home.
Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
can we stop villainizing a mental illness please? this is the most blatant overblown reaction ever.
also, his girlfriend is just batshit. just say that. it’s obvious, but you don’t need to insult those who suffer just because it’s a convenient tool to use as a villain.
BPD sucks all the way around. don’t use it as a catch-all for your hatred.
this is the most blatant overblown reaction ever.
correct take
Motherfucker, Im Borderline myself. I KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I’M TALKING ABOUT.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU, NARCISSUS.
take it easy, dude. don’t all caps me because I don’t share your views on BPD.
also I love how you say “this is not about you” when literally you made it about you and BPD 😂 and then fabricated some murder suicide plot for some reason.
lol.
Asking people online if your partner is gaslighting you is serious concern for your situation, whether her behaviors were actually gaslighting or not. Your intuition is telling you something is wayyyyy off. Also, that you had to ask us and not close friends, family, or her herself is another major red flag. Either you are socially isolated and have no one to ask or you are protecting her reputation because you know that those behaviors would be judged quite poorly by people that care about you.
As someone that has dated something like that before, I know my words will not mean much to you. You will undoubtedly rationalize her behavior as her being justifiably triggered, reacting to childhood trauma, making a good point, cute because that’s how she communicates love, etc. Regardless, make a note of what everyone here is telling you. Her behaviors were not acceptable at all. There is no justification for them, and that you said it was the usual is troubling.
The best anyone can do for you now is be a voice of reason and direct you to learn about psychological and emotional abuse so you can see it and decide for yourself. Here are 2 resources that I found helpful when I was in your situation:
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Save Your Sanity is a series of videos/podcasts on being in a relationship with difficult people. She has all sorts of topics that are relevant, including how to spot gaslighting.
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The other is the book Should I Stay or Should I Go? Surviving a Relationship with a Narcissist by Ramani Durvasula. I like this one in particular because it has a questionnaire in it you can take to help you notice of you’re in a toxic relationship. Taking that questionnaire was the catalyst that started my escape. Check it out and be truthful. If she’s okay and this was just a unique experience, then there is nothing to worry about and the book will help you confirm that.
I highly recommend that you don’t tell you partner you are looking into this. Ask anyone that’s been in an abusive relationship. Shoot, make another AskLemmy post asking this. Telling a potential abuser/narcissist/manipulator that you are on to them is a HUGE mistake. Instead, look into it on your own during your free time. If she accidentally catches you, say you ran into this online and it seemed interesting. A healthy partner won’t even think about it anymore. If she starts with an interrogation, gets upset, or suddenly becomes the best girlfriend ever, that’s manipulation.
Certainly, she will commit more odd and questionable behaviors in the future. I urge you to maintain a secret log of her behaviors so that you can stay sane and notice. Please feel free to reach out. Don’t stay isolated. You can make another post, and you can even contact me directly via Matrix (see my profile). Good luck!
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yes you would be responsible!!!1!1!! you’d be sent to jail with the same sentence as the kidnapper whether they catch it or not!!!
Of course not. I would brush this off thinking your GF is probably not even 20 years old yet. The situation sounds a bit immature. I would be concerned if she’s older than 25 and making that scene though, it sounds like a very large red flag. Now, perhaps she’s been through some trauma that would explain the behaviour, if that’s the case you may want to consider professional help.
