It’s Russians that live in the Donbass, not Poles.
There are a few Taiwanese in Taiwan apart from Chinese,
a few Australians in Australia apart from Anglos,
and a few Americans in the US apart from Anglos,
but there are no Ukrainians in Ukraine.
In Ukraine in general, ~68% speak Ukranian natively, ~17% are native Ukranian/Russian bilingual, ~14% are native Russian speakers.
In the Donbas, ~27% Ukrainian native speakers, ~29% bilinguals, ~42% Russian native speakers.
Going by nationality:
~73% of Ukranian nationals natively speak Ukranian.
~18% of Ukranian nationals are bilingual natives.
~9% of Ukranian nationals natively speak Russian.
~4% of Russian nationals natively speak Ukranian.
~14% of Russian nationals are bilingual.
~81% of Russian nationals natively speak Russian.
All these numbers are from 2017.
…
I think it is safe to say that there are in fact many Ukranians in Ukraine, even many Ukranians in Donbas, at least prior to 2022… due to, you know, the ethnic cleansing undertaken by an occupying foreign national army.
My napkin math on those numbers works out to 53% Russian nationals vs 46% Ukranian nationals in Donbas in 2017.
Using a 53% Russian vs 46% Ukranian proportion to justify mass military force against the Ukranian population in Donbas is roughly the same logic that would conclude it is morally correct to invade Los Angeles and deport everyone who isn’t fluent in English, which has similar proportions between English and Spanish.
No, they are fascist Russians who speak a different language because they hated communism and decided to turn their Russian dialect into a full-blown language.
The Soviets decided to respect the language and cultural differences as long as they denounced their fascism.
Plus “The West” is too vague a term to take seriously.
If you’re from the US, you’re soon going to be familiar with the ‘fascist spin-off nation’.
Calling another language a “dialect” is really lame if I’m being honest. The Ukrainian and Belarusian languages descended from Rutherian, which split from Russian hundreds of years ago. After centuries of Ukraine being occupied by one foreign power after another the history is all over the place but long story short Ukrainian is as much a dialect of Russian as English is a dialect of Latin.
And as for the Ukrainian identity not being real … if it wasn’t real then Russia wouldn’t be trying to erase it. Ukraine has only been part of Russia for 80 out of the last 800 years. I should not bother arguing with you, I don’t know why I even bother. I’m gonna block you like I do every tankie.
Lol, the differences between Ukrainian and Russian began in the 13th century, when old Ukrainian shifted /g/ to /ɣ/ and then to modern day /ɦ/.
By that logic, Germany should swallow the Netherlands because clearly Dutch and German have the same origins and are just dialects. Hell, if you go back to the 11th century, i.e. the Kievan Rus, a bunch of now distinct languages were much closer to each other.
Ukrainian has a lot more German, Polish and Tartar loanwords than Russian. Southwestern Dialects of Ukrainian are closer to Polish than to Russian. Ukrainian has an 38% difference in Vocabulary to Russian, which is roughly the difference between Italian and Spanish.
Ukrainian also preserved it’s vocative case, which has disappeared from Russian. It possesses 3 different future tenses, opposed to 2 in Russian. These are two different languages
Soviet promotion of the Ukrainian language was not an “appeasement of fascist russians”, it was a reversal of Tsarist oppression. Just up until the 1930s, when the USSR again made a 180 turn on their language policies throughout its territory.
It’s Russians that live in the Donbass, not Poles.
There are a few Taiwanese in Taiwan apart from Chinese,
a few Australians in Australia apart from Anglos,
and a few Americans in the US apart from Anglos,
but there are no Ukrainians in Ukraine.
In Ukraine in general, ~68% speak Ukranian natively, ~17% are native Ukranian/Russian bilingual, ~14% are native Russian speakers.
In the Donbas, ~27% Ukrainian native speakers, ~29% bilinguals, ~42% Russian native speakers.
Going by nationality:
~73% of Ukranian nationals natively speak Ukranian.
~18% of Ukranian nationals are bilingual natives.
~9% of Ukranian nationals natively speak Russian.
~4% of Russian nationals natively speak Ukranian.
~14% of Russian nationals are bilingual.
~81% of Russian nationals natively speak Russian.
All these numbers are from 2017.
…
I think it is safe to say that there are in fact many Ukranians in Ukraine, even many Ukranians in Donbas, at least prior to 2022… due to, you know, the ethnic cleansing undertaken by an occupying foreign national army.
My napkin math on those numbers works out to 53% Russian nationals vs 46% Ukranian nationals in Donbas in 2017.
Using a 53% Russian vs 46% Ukranian proportion to justify mass military force against the Ukranian population in Donbas is roughly the same logic that would conclude it is morally correct to invade Los Angeles and deport everyone who isn’t fluent in English, which has similar proportions between English and Spanish.
Ah yes, they are just “confused Russians” who speak a different language because of the ebul West.
In the Donbas? Half of them speak Russian natively, you dunce. About another fifth are natively bilingual.
Since you started it: are you blind?
“There are Ukrainians in Ukraine”
They weren’t talking about the Donbas specifically, they were talking about the entire Ukraine.
No, they are fascist Russians who speak a different language because they hated communism and decided to turn their Russian dialect into a full-blown language.
The Soviets decided to respect the language and cultural differences as long as they denounced their fascism.
Plus “The West” is too vague a term to take seriously.
If you’re from the US, you’re soon going to be familiar with the ‘fascist spin-off nation’.
Yeah, the famous communist hating “Russians” deciding to write in Ukrainian in the 1840s.
Alexander II. banned any publications in Ukrainian. But yeah, totally just fascist Russians lol.
God I’m so fucking tired of idiot liberals who refuse to read history and think their ignorant fucking smarm is the same as knowledge
You are now a liberal if you don’t think every Ukrainian is a fascist.
Dialects have names. Go back further and you’ll notice the language starts out in Kiev, same as Russian, in the same era as the same language.
Again, if you live in the US, you’ll have this historical revisionism fun of fascism too soon.
The only historical revisionist here is you.
I’m not the one who took down the Catherine the Great statue in Odessa.
The most sacrilegious act: taking down statues.
anyway back to tearing down statues celebrating the defeat of the nazis and putting up statues that celebrate the nazis
Calling another language a “dialect” is really lame if I’m being honest. The Ukrainian and Belarusian languages descended from Rutherian, which split from Russian hundreds of years ago. After centuries of Ukraine being occupied by one foreign power after another the history is all over the place but long story short Ukrainian is as much a dialect of Russian as English is a dialect of Latin.
And as for the Ukrainian identity not being real … if it wasn’t real then Russia wouldn’t be trying to erase it. Ukraine has only been part of Russia for 80 out of the last 800 years. I should not bother arguing with you, I don’t know why I even bother. I’m gonna block you like I do every tankie.
Lol, the differences between Ukrainian and Russian began in the 13th century, when old Ukrainian shifted /g/ to /ɣ/ and then to modern day /ɦ/. By that logic, Germany should swallow the Netherlands because clearly Dutch and German have the same origins and are just dialects. Hell, if you go back to the 11th century, i.e. the Kievan Rus, a bunch of now distinct languages were much closer to each other.
Ukrainian has a lot more German, Polish and Tartar loanwords than Russian. Southwestern Dialects of Ukrainian are closer to Polish than to Russian. Ukrainian has an 38% difference in Vocabulary to Russian, which is roughly the difference between Italian and Spanish. Ukrainian also preserved it’s vocative case, which has disappeared from Russian. It possesses 3 different future tenses, opposed to 2 in Russian. These are two different languages
Soviet promotion of the Ukrainian language was not an “appeasement of fascist russians”, it was a reversal of Tsarist oppression. Just up until the 1930s, when the USSR again made a 180 turn on their language policies throughout its territory.