Ah, but if you said anything against the blue (but not in favor of red), you were the vile, evil… CENTRIST! (I.e. a label just applied to you to single you out for not blindly agreeing with the zeitgeist.) Seriously, the front page of Lemmy for a good while was just toxic political “VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO” and if you didn’t agree, you were just a problem.
The critical part of ‘vote blue no matter who’ is the voting part. That’s the game plan short-term when it’s election season.
That does not preclude criticizing the incumbents. Or even the candidates. But no matter how you feel about them, you vote for them to stave off misery, and encourage everyone around you to do the same.
Not voting for them sends a message, but it’s the wrong message - and that message is that the populace prefers the GOP. Stop fascism in its tracks and vote blue. Fight for actual progress by doing what you can to forward actual progressive candidates and policies. Like NYC is doing right now.
It boggles my mind how people seem to be incapable of wrapping their head around that concept, and instead continue to insist that we shouldn’t be voting for DNC candidates because — uh - it’ll make things better??? Somehow??? At this point, the willful ignorance is starting to smack of sealioning.
If you’re argument is that we need to be doing what’s right and pushing for progress, then why is that cast as something ONLY the “blue” can do? I don’t know how old you are to see how many times the “blue” has absolutely failed at their job, failed the people, but for no other reason than they’re in the right party, they keep getting voted in. But I’ve seen several “blue” presidents do anywhere from fuckall to the bare minimum in terms of progress/change.
There are other options to vote for that don’t just include the GOP as you seem to suggest. The US isn’t supposed to be just a 2 party system. It’s supposed to be dynamic; these parties are supposed to die off when they no longer represent the people. If you want progress and change, but keep doing the same thing that doesn’t seem to be all that progressive… are you making any progress?
Hard disagree on that. That’s assuming the intentions of the people.
No it’s not. It’s acknowledging the fact that campaigning politicians largely view people as one of the following:
With us
Against us
Someone we might be able to persuade to be with us
Not relevant
If you don’t vote, they categorise you in that last one. It doesn’t matter what’s in your heart, what matters is how they perceive you. The only tool you have to change that is your vote.
I keep saying this refrain. The time to reform the party is after elections, until the primary (NOW). The time to vote for the party is during the election period. Sure, state your grievances anytime or all the time to get your politicians to listen. But handing the win to chaos to state your case gives the way to fascism.
Well Mamdani is a sign that they (billionaires and establishment politicians) aren’t just ignoring progressives (if that’s what you mean by us), they are actively campaigning against reform, we are pushing back. I know it can feel helpless, but don’t just assume nothing is happening.
In the general election, that’s what you should do. If establishment Dems don’t back their nominee, it doesn’t change how you should vote.
People who didn’t vote blue in 2024 actively chose a fascist regime. Anyone who doesn’t vote blue in all the upcoming elections (with a Fetterman exception, but he should be primaried) is endorsing the MAGA movement.
Hard disagree. If we continue the narrative that the US is a 2 party system, actively rejecting and backing other parties in fear “the bad guy will win” (a sentiment and view shared with the Dem/Rep parties), then we’ve entered a endless loop that only as we’ve seen over the decades, is a race to the bottom. We elected Biden because we didn’t want Trump and largely for no other reason. That’s not a good reason. And Biden even commented that he was perhaps too old (his words).
And it’s a fallacy, shared by the Dem/Rep, to fear-monger the “If you don’t vote for MY party, then it’s voting for the other party (the bad guys)”. This was a false narrative that was spread this election and several before it, to prevent anyone else from opposing the status quo. A vote for ‘not my party’ is not a ‘vote for the other party’. If I can’t vote how I want (speaking broadly here for everyone), then my vote doesn’t matter. And if my vote doesn’t matter, then I’m not being represented. And if you’re going to argue that, I’d like to point to the huge number of eligible voters who consistently don’t vote. If we cast non-votes as a vote of no confidence, we’d see a big change in things. But doing that means Dem/Rep would lose the seesaw swings in power they have come to enjoy.
So no, you shouldn’t just throw your vote blindly behind any side. Especially because the internet thinks you should (and again, that goes for Dem/Rep alike).
When the major party candidates include a literal fascist building concentration camps and sending people to torture prisons without due process and a wildly imperfect opposition party candidate, you for against the literal fascist.
People who chose not to vote for Harris because they weren’t “excited” to vote for her chose not to stand in the way of Trump, and they are responsible for him winning the election.
If you didn’t vote for Harris, you have blood on your hands and should be losing sleep over it.
I voted libertarian in the last election. Not because I thought they had any chance of winning, but because neither party had a candidate I would like to endorse and instead of not voting I gave it to the libertarians to help them stay over the threshold for the next election.
The two party system is going to be the death of America.
i feel like the people on reddit that was blasting it all over, are propaganda(probably subterfuge from the right and tankies) i never felt a good vipe with those posts.
I dunno. I think a lot of regular people felt really strongly that it was critical that the Republicans not gain control of everything in this last election, and given how things are going at the moment, it’s really hard to argue that was wrong. Which is not to say that the folks criticizing the Democrats were wrong either! The Democrats’ feckless centrism and undermining of leftist candidates has been galling for years. The difficult truth is that the system has been so broken that really good people following genuine motivations were arguing on both sides of the leftist/Democrat divide. I was trying to cling to the hope that if we jollied the current system along, we could get reforms like ranked choice voting and the national vote interstate compact in place that would help shift the underlying incentives in the system away from the two-party system, but it’s probably really been irreparable for years now.
Of course bullying people was never going to be an effective tactic, and I never endorsed that. But that’s just regular tribalism and anger at the nonconformist. That’s just regular dumb human stuff.
Ah, but if you said anything against the blue (but not in favor of red), you were the vile, evil… CENTRIST! (I.e. a label just applied to you to single you out for not blindly agreeing with the zeitgeist.) Seriously, the front page of Lemmy for a good while was just toxic political “VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO” and if you didn’t agree, you were just a problem.
The critical part of ‘vote blue no matter who’ is the voting part. That’s the game plan short-term when it’s election season.
That does not preclude criticizing the incumbents. Or even the candidates. But no matter how you feel about them, you vote for them to stave off misery, and encourage everyone around you to do the same.
Not voting for them sends a message, but it’s the wrong message - and that message is that the populace prefers the GOP. Stop fascism in its tracks and vote blue. Fight for actual progress by doing what you can to forward actual progressive candidates and policies. Like NYC is doing right now.
It boggles my mind how people seem to be incapable of wrapping their head around that concept, and instead continue to insist that we shouldn’t be voting for DNC candidates because — uh - it’ll make things better??? Somehow??? At this point, the willful ignorance is starting to smack of sealioning.
Hard disagree on that. That’s assuming the intentions of the people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_are_either_with_us,_or_against_us
If you’re argument is that we need to be doing what’s right and pushing for progress, then why is that cast as something ONLY the “blue” can do? I don’t know how old you are to see how many times the “blue” has absolutely failed at their job, failed the people, but for no other reason than they’re in the right party, they keep getting voted in. But I’ve seen several “blue” presidents do anywhere from fuckall to the bare minimum in terms of progress/change.
There are other options to vote for that don’t just include the GOP as you seem to suggest. The US isn’t supposed to be just a 2 party system. It’s supposed to be dynamic; these parties are supposed to die off when they no longer represent the people. If you want progress and change, but keep doing the same thing that doesn’t seem to be all that progressive… are you making any progress?
No it’s not. It’s acknowledging the fact that campaigning politicians largely view people as one of the following:
If you don’t vote, they categorise you in that last one. It doesn’t matter what’s in your heart, what matters is how they perceive you. The only tool you have to change that is your vote.
FPTP voting results in 2 parties unfortunately. until the system changes, voting 3rd party does fuck all.
This this this this this.
I keep saying this refrain. The time to reform the party is after elections, until the primary (NOW). The time to vote for the party is during the election period. Sure, state your grievances anytime or all the time to get your politicians to listen. But handing the win to chaos to state your case gives the way to fascism.
Not terribly helpful when the party just ignores us until the election when it’s “too late.”
Well Mamdani is a sign that they (billionaires and establishment politicians) aren’t just ignoring progressives (if that’s what you mean by us), they are actively campaigning against reform, we are pushing back. I know it can feel helpless, but don’t just assume nothing is happening.
In the general election, that’s what you should do. If establishment Dems don’t back their nominee, it doesn’t change how you should vote.
People who didn’t vote blue in 2024 actively chose a fascist regime. Anyone who doesn’t vote blue in all the upcoming elections (with a Fetterman exception, but he should be primaried) is endorsing the MAGA movement.
Hard disagree. If we continue the narrative that the US is a 2 party system, actively rejecting and backing other parties in fear “the bad guy will win” (a sentiment and view shared with the Dem/Rep parties), then we’ve entered a endless loop that only as we’ve seen over the decades, is a race to the bottom. We elected Biden because we didn’t want Trump and largely for no other reason. That’s not a good reason. And Biden even commented that he was perhaps too old (his words).
And it’s a fallacy, shared by the Dem/Rep, to fear-monger the “If you don’t vote for MY party, then it’s voting for the other party (the bad guys)”. This was a false narrative that was spread this election and several before it, to prevent anyone else from opposing the status quo. A vote for ‘not my party’ is not a ‘vote for the other party’. If I can’t vote how I want (speaking broadly here for everyone), then my vote doesn’t matter. And if my vote doesn’t matter, then I’m not being represented. And if you’re going to argue that, I’d like to point to the huge number of eligible voters who consistently don’t vote. If we cast non-votes as a vote of no confidence, we’d see a big change in things. But doing that means Dem/Rep would lose the seesaw swings in power they have come to enjoy.
So no, you shouldn’t just throw your vote blindly behind any side. Especially because the internet thinks you should (and again, that goes for Dem/Rep alike).
When the major party candidates include a literal fascist building concentration camps and sending people to torture prisons without due process and a wildly imperfect opposition party candidate, you for against the literal fascist.
People who chose not to vote for Harris because they weren’t “excited” to vote for her chose not to stand in the way of Trump, and they are responsible for him winning the election.
If you didn’t vote for Harris, you have blood on your hands and should be losing sleep over it.
I voted libertarian in the last election. Not because I thought they had any chance of winning, but because neither party had a candidate I would like to endorse and instead of not voting I gave it to the libertarians to help them stay over the threshold for the next election.
The two party system is going to be the death of America.
You voted for Trump, and you have blood on your hands.
Only if they’re in a swing state. If they in a safe blue or safe red state, eh, have at it.
i feel like the people on reddit that was blasting it all over, are propaganda(probably subterfuge from the right and tankies) i never felt a good vipe with those posts.
I dunno. I think a lot of regular people felt really strongly that it was critical that the Republicans not gain control of everything in this last election, and given how things are going at the moment, it’s really hard to argue that was wrong. Which is not to say that the folks criticizing the Democrats were wrong either! The Democrats’ feckless centrism and undermining of leftist candidates has been galling for years. The difficult truth is that the system has been so broken that really good people following genuine motivations were arguing on both sides of the leftist/Democrat divide. I was trying to cling to the hope that if we jollied the current system along, we could get reforms like ranked choice voting and the national vote interstate compact in place that would help shift the underlying incentives in the system away from the two-party system, but it’s probably really been irreparable for years now.
Of course bullying people was never going to be an effective tactic, and I never endorsed that. But that’s just regular tribalism and anger at the nonconformist. That’s just regular dumb human stuff.
Probably