In my opinion, it makes very little sense to prohibit right-deviationists (Nazbols and Patsocs) while not explicitly banning left-deviationists, especially since they are in most ways a comparable threat to revolutionary communities if not worse.
The exact text I suggest is:
- No left-deviationists (Maoists, Hoxhaists, Trotskyists, “left” communists, etc.)
Thoughts?
Leftist deviants cause little harm. They get frustrated easily when dealing with tankies. We probably do more good by letting them try to defend their poor positions than we do giving them the boot.
Disagree. I think banning should not be done on on the basis of ideological labels but on the basis of behavior. If someone behaves themselves (no trolling, no stirring up drama, no peddling of fascist/imperialist/liberal propaganda), and shows some humility and a willingness to learn and engage in good faith, then i don’t care very much what ideological orientation that person identifies with.
Concerning
There are a couple of confused users around here but nothing worth banning. I trust our mods to take action when its necessary.
3 day account suggesting rules? How much have Maoists and Trots hurt you in 3 days here?
I don’t agree with this, because a) We don’t have these kinds of leftists around here. They do wander in sometimes, but it’s never been a serious issue of causing unmanageable trouble. b) We do get right-wingers occasionally strolling in through the rest of the verse, and usually they come in maliciously, so the existing rule makes sense.
So, no.
I do not see what you mean that they are “a comparable threat… if not worse” I was around when rule five was made, and even now we have a bigger problem with right deviation than with left deviation. I cannot say we have never had a problem with left deviation, however that has never been a problem that has gotten out of hand.
I am also not going to say that someone new cannot have valuable ideas for a community, but i do find it somewhat suspicious that the user who is proposing it has an account less than a week old. They may be speaking from personal experence, or another group that fell apart from the lack of this rule, however I do find it slightly suspicous.
Please if any of my observation is incorrect let me know
Lmao, fuck off with your shitty attempt to divide the left. Deeply unserious person.
Look I am not sure about the merits or the intention of the proposed rule, but this does not seem like an “attempt to devide the left” First because the left is a nebulous consept that is hard to define, IE is a Soc Dem the left or not. But more importantly the grad is not a left unity instance, we are an ML instance, if there is a significant hold of Trots or Maoists, then I think that we may need to address that, my bigger concern with this rule is there seems to be no issue with that yet
What concrete political work are you doing where you test your political line and have proven its correctness?
I’m going to sleep soon, or trying too (just took melatonin), but I’ll say this:
We shouldn’t make a decision now (not that it’s my call, I’m just suggesting)… but honestly? Eventually we’re going to have to on this question.
I get it. Left-deviationism is technically not as bad as right-deviationism and ACP freaks would hunt people like me for sport.
But
I think we’re going to have a bit of a reckoning so… err, yeah, you don’t have to make a decision now, just… keep it in mind, is all.
AFAIK, that’s not an issue we run into very often these days.
I don’t mean to be rude, but I usually spend many weeks in a new community before I consider suggesting any changes, and your account is three days old.
It is kinda weird that a new account is suggesting changes at a time like this. Personally, I haven’t come across ultras on this website (except one that is probably reading this, but i joined last year). Also doesn’t lemmygrad already ban ultra-leftists?
Yes, maybe the new user is just more gung-ho or too young or both.
For their part, I would honestly wait a few weeks, at least, to see how prevalent the problem is.
And tbh, I, myself, having been here for years, would rather be safe than sorry, in case we ever get another boom in membership.
I mean we could, but generaly we would not get Ultras because we are pro AES, and they tend to self select out to other communities. I personaly do not see a reason for it, especialy if we get a small trickle it is possible to educate them, and that is always preferable to outright banning. I also tend to hesitate adding a rule like this before there is a need for one, especialy when I fail to see a signifcant danger if it is not done
joined 3 days ago.
Who’s “we”?
right-deviationists are actually dangerous to marginalized people,promoting anti-LGBTQ and racist positions
left-deviationists are just annoyingLeft-deviationists and ultras can be racist and chauvinistic, but couch what they believe in a “I’m more left than you therefore I’m infallible compared to you” sort-of way.
I would not underestimate their chauvinism and racism.
Besides, look at Maoists and other Gonzaloists.
Maoists
u wot.
Maoists are genuinely not good for any online ML community.
We’re ML, not Maoist.
Marxism-Leninism beats Gonzaloism any day.
My honest problem with the conduct with many Maoists online (not necessarily IRL) is that they’re very combative, belligerent, and even try to either coup a subreddit, Discord server, online forum, or place like this, by making “demands” or else they’ll dox / threaten / get people to leave / etc. the community and mods.
The worst part is that I’ve seen several communities torn apart with these tactics, usually with Maoist mods being promoted, before they get rid of the other ML mods and replace them with Maoists or ahem ahem ahem “anti-revistionist” (MLs in name only), who are basically just Maoists.
Also, see: /r/communism
It’s now the biggest Maoist subreddit on, well, Reddit, for all intents and purposes.
For the record, I will work with anyone on the streets, including Maoists, but I can’t deny the prevalent culture of combativeness, disagreement for the sake of it, and general belligerence as well as the idolization and totalization of people like Abimuel Guzman and the generals that followed him and their tactics.
Come on, I can’t be the only one that has seen this.
Most Maoists adopt anti-Marxist positions on a number of topics (e.g. rejecting all AES states) and are overall very dogmatic. I know this from my experience with them in the past.
speak for yourself, weren’t you the one backing that ultra Organus Flufficus in that deleted thread?
And now you come here with zeal of the convert.
Funny thing is, there’s barely any left-deviationists over on lemmygrad.ml
If you want, you could go argue with some ‘ultras’ in this instance called Hexbear.net
Even hexbear is mostly run of the mill Marxist-Leninists and anarchists. The only Maoist leanings I see are in third-worldist support which is perfectly intuitive to me as a Marxist.
Are these Maoists on the website here with us now?
Eh, I’ve seen PatSocs that have come out of the woodwork suddenly on this site so I’d like to be careful.
And yes, I do recall incidents involving Maoists here.
I’ve been here for like, what?, five years including my very first account?
Sooooo…
Yeah.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
