Small things like ‘Auto expand media’ being set to true, can have a huge impact on user retention rate.
The vast majority of people never open or change default settings in the social media they use.
When they try out Lemmy etc., and the defaults aren’t great a lot of them will have a bad User Experience and leave.
I’m a IT professional, and joined Lemmy a few months ago, the UX sucked, most of that could have been fixed by having good defaults in place.
I powered through, but I won’t recommend Lemmy to many of my friends or family because I know they will give up due to too much friction in finding the right settings and how things work.
For the Fediverse to succeed focus needs to be put on giving people a very smooth UX from first opening a app or page, to finding enjoyment seeing and engaging with content.
Default instances would go a long way, I know there’s a lot of hate for lemmy.world but defaulting to the biggest instance or a random one in the top 10 would help ease some of the early friction. Users can choose an instance later when they get more comfortable with the platform.
Federation is neat but the average person just wants to scroll and chat
Top 10 ( https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list )
- LW
- lemm.ee
- lemmynsfw.com - not suitable
- sh.itjust.work - shit in the name, not appealing to the average user
- lemmy.ml - power tripping https://feddit.uk/post/12952230
- lemmy.dbzer0.com - requires to follow and agree the Anarchist code of Conduct - not appealing to the average user
- lemmy.ca - Canada-oriented, non-Canadian users might not want to join as they wouldn’t think they would belong
- feddit.org - German-focused, https://feddit.org/c/main content is in German
- lemmy.blahaj.zone - queer-focused
- programming.dev - programmers-focused
I made a more complete analysis in this post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/37336391 (pinned on [email protected] ), nowadays I basically go with:
" Lemmy has 47k monthly active users
- https://discuss.online/ if you want a server located in the USA (content is still accessible from any server, the most difference latency)
- https://sopuli.xyz/ if you want a server located in the EU
- https://vger.app/settings/install if you want an app
Feel free if you have any questions"
Because yes, the USA/EU question appeared during the Luigi announcement in LW.
Does lemm.ee have as obvious a political stance as LW?
What “obvious” political stance might that be?
To me, it’s “somewhere on the progressive side of the median” but I’m almost expecting you to say “fascist” or something, given the extent of America’s polarization.
Another thing: in popular communities the comments are coming from all over, so without keeping a mental tally of everyone’s usernames I find it’s getting quite hard to pin down any particular instance’s biases.
Neoliberal is what I’m referring to.
This was exactly my point! “Neoliberal.”
Default instances would go a long way, I know there’s a lot of hate for lemmy.world but defaulting to the biggest instance or a random one in the top 10 would help ease some of the early friction.
I’d rather join-lemmy (and join-fediverse) were smarter.
Have a series of questions (for join-fediverse add “what service do you want?”):
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Where are you?
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What languages do you speak?
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Select your hobbies from the list below:
And it then spits out 2 or 3 instances.
It’s what I’d do if someone asked me directly for a recommendation and should be relatively easy to do.
As we say with someone posting a link to db0 on r/piracy, if you just say to people “this is the instance for you” and it seems relevant then they make the jump. I’m tempted to go to the main subs for Canada, Australia, the UK, etc and just post a link to the relevant instance.
Be ready to get your post removed for self promotion, and yourself banned. That’s what I noticed on most countries subs (except Australia I guess? [email protected] still thriving everyday)
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Default instances would go a long way
No, suggesting actual websites to people, rather than “Lemmy”, would go a long way.
Default instances result in centralization. In recreating the existing structures that, ostensibly, we’re all here to reject.
Once people are in the ecosystem it’s easy for them to move around, if eg. lemm.ee mods go on a powertrip it would be such a smooth transition for people to switch.
I agree, a gateway drug is what we are looking for. Imagine trying to learn how to run before you learned how to walk. We are asking a lot of the masses if we want to see user growth here without a simple and easy to understand starting place.
I think the hardest concept for beginners to grok is that they can’t login with one account to all instances. If we were to improve the UX around that experience solely, we would see greater adoption.
It’s not that popular of a concept on here, probably since there’s massive selection bias (everyone here evidently found a way to struggle through), but you’re completely right and I find that that lazer focus on usability is one place that Open Source advocates and projects often struggle with.
And personally, I think it’s because most open source projects are built and run by programmers since they’re the ones who can build an open source project, whereas a consumer facing site like Reddit / FB / TikTok/ IG, would be planned out and designed by a product manager, working closely with a designer and market researcher, and then get programmers to build that for them.
It’s a model that’s really difficult to pull off though in a community primarily consisting of programmers volunteering their free time, but I think it’s worth keeping that in mind. Open Source projects that are consumer facing (and especially ones that rely on network effects), really need to work hard to stay in that user facing headspace.
That’s the problem yes, but we can make small changes that will have a huge impact.
It’s a very easy change to default ‘Auto expand media’ to true for half of new users, and see what effect it has over a few months. It’s also a fun experiment with no real drawbacks.
Feel free to crosspost to [email protected], it’s a community dedicated to promote Lemmy and make it more welcoming to new joiners, so your post would fit right in!
We have a few different frontends available on feddit.uk, you can easily tell a new user that there are different ways of viewing the same content and to pick their favourite
Sure but is the default https://feddit.uk/ ? because that sucks, and many people will give up before finding https://p.feddit.uk/
I am almost certainly not the “normal” user, but the default theme is much better usability wise than the “p” version. The one would have me looking for an alternative UI/app.
I get that, but we need to cater for the massss if we want to see lemmy grow
What makes you think it sucks? That’s just your opinion, do you mainly just look at image posts? Personally I prefer posts being collapsed by default so I can scroll through and find the interesting ones. Arbitrarily setting one thing as the default is just as bad as setting another.
Years ago I did a UX study on Lemmy’s frontend, and tbh not much has changed since. Things like when editing a thread, the Save button is multiple proximity separators apart from the text you’re editing, making it very easy to missclick cancel. Or in the community search, you can’t search on specific instances that aren’t yours.
I’ve gotten very used to the UI over time but it definitely needs a “pain point” passover
That’s a great point and a really low hanging fruit that would likely help with adoption and retention. The defaults weren’t great for me either.
While this is of course true (and I too have professional experience in this field), my own experience is the opposite. The UX and defaults here are generally better than on, for example, the R-site.
Everything boils down to preferences, but Lemmy defaults is not necessarily keeping up with the trends. Small thumbnails were more useful back when internet traffic was slow and/or expensive, today it’s more of an acquired taste.
I wish different instances dared to have more different defaults, so that one instance would look significantly different from another beyond just colour scheme. I still haven’t seen a single instance run something like Alexandrite or Photon by default, and while I guess there are good reasons for that I think it would have been a welcome addition.
won’t recommend Lemmy to many of my friends or family because I know they will give up
Yeah, when I first started out here, my experience was like this:
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I went to the join Lemmy page, then clicked to show all servers. Then waited. And waited. Then I went to bed.
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By the next morning, the list of servers had managed to load. I spotted one that was advertised as “recommended for users to join to reduce load on the Fediverse”, which seemed like a good idea after seeing how even the join page was battling to load.
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Found out that the server I joined seemed to have all sorts of issues loading content. And was apparently de-federated from a bunch of instances that align with my interests. So search results were showing me little to nothing in regards to queer communities for example, only dead communities.
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Signed up on world instead and encountered multiple posts that said they had comments but loaded nothing. Found out that there were no languages selected in my settings. So I selected ‘undefined’, scrolled down, selected ‘English’, then saved.
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I was still missing a bunch of posts after that, so I went back to settings and saw that ‘undefined’ was deselected again. That’s when I realised that you have to ctrl click each language you choose or else it just deselects the previous language that you clicked on.
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Finally success! 3 or 4 days later. And now I’m here.
I would love to recommend Lemmy to the few people I know who use Reddit. But I can’t see any of them trying without just giving up and going back to the place where all you need to do is sign up and hey presto, content to look at and interact with.
I have a feeling that even the process of choosing an instance would probably put them off. I could give advice but there’s only so much I could do or explain without being there in person helping them. If they have to read walls of text explaining how to get started, it would probably end there.
I’m not sure what the solution is though, or if there even is one. It might just be a little bit like trying to recommend Linux to people who just want to be able to push a button and go. Which is the majority, based on what I’ve seen.
Also just one last thing and something that has been discussed to death. There’s just not enough content here yet for the average person to see any reason to switch over from the place with all the content.
And on that note, recommending this place to people that I know in real life would be too risky right now that they would see my account and figure out who I am. Because there isn’t a crowd of a million people to slip into and disappear here. And this isn’t Facebook. I don’t want people to know about the very personal things I sometimes say on anonymous social media.
These things are so important to get right. We should address them, we’re likely losing so many users because you’re average person isn’t going to spend more than 10min to figure it out, definitely not 4 days
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I personally value the decentralization and personal control a lot more than laypeople being arsed to try to figure it out. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t even be here in the first place. Why try to accommodate for users that don’t give a crap about the main selling point by diminishing the said selling point?
Removed by mod
Not a lot of thought was put into selecting the defaults, all I’m saying is at the very least we should put thought into the defaults that are set. It takes away no control from the user.
Mastodon: When you block someone they no longer can interact with you or your content Lemmy: When you “block” someone they can mine your content forever
Nothing you can really do about preventing someone from looking at your posts unless you make your profile private, and I don’t think Lemmy has that concept.
Yeah also the blocking instances capabilities on Lemmy are a fucking joke
Block an instance at user level? You still have to deal with their users and you see crossposts
Defederate an instance? You still see their crossposts if someone from another instance does it
What part of that counts as blocking? It should be as nuclear as possible, that’s what blocking is for, because someone doesn’t want anything to do with them.Also I know Lemmy is not private, but not being able to completely delete posts/comments still irks me.
