This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
Greenleaf is pretty massively exaggerating about the extent of defederation, as only a handful ever get defederated regularly, certainly not enough to call it ‘wars’.
As for UX, there’s definitely room for lots of improvements, especially in making it easier to explore another instances local communities from within your own insinstance without explicitly subbing to them all.
But I don’t think the very concept of different instances is truly a barrier or bad UX, that other user is just giving lazy excuses for not switching away from Reddit.
If that was a legitimate issue, MMO’s (which also often have servers the player needs to choose) wouldn’t have the userbase they do. Nor would Email have taken off.
Even if Lemmy was one big simple centralized server, that user would just come up with another reason they couldn’t switch.
“Oh, it’s too small, my niche communities aren’t there”
“The UI isn’t as nice”
“The mod tools aren’t as good”
Etc.
If that was a legitimate issue, MMO’s (which also often have servers the player needs to choose) wouldn’t have the userbase they do. Nor would Email have taken off.
But in an MMO, you still get the same content no matter what server you choose. Over here, it directly impacts what content you can interact with based on (de)federation.
If you joined a German-speaking WoW server as a non-speaking German, the experience was going to be subpar
The only real federation dramas I can think of were relating to Hexbear and Beehaw. If Greenleaf was on one of those instances then maybe it could explain their skewed perspective. Otherwise yeah, I don’t get it.
deleted by creator
Why is “drama” on Lemmy always highly exaggerated by people?
“Endless wars of who federates with who”. What is that person even talking about and who the fuck would even care as a normal user?
The people who aren’t here are making excuses to not be here. Otherwise they’d be here.
That being said the feud between world and ml users is pretty noticeable
Really early on like right after the API fuckfest, there was a large influx of users who picked servers based on whatever. As a result, servers defederated and there was a lot of drama as a result.
Though that said I haven’t heard much about defederating in some time.
What would prevent the same happening in the next wave of rats jumping ship? They don’t know anything about the servers or their niches, so they pick whatever. Listing all the servers and their missions is a good start for those motivated to join, but for those more on the fence, how do we ease the transition?
I personally see three big issues with getting new users to Lemmy use and stat on Lemmy:
- knowing about it: It is a matter of time before Reddit bans linking to Lemmy. Either by outright preventing their discussion via shadow deletes or full deletes. join-lemmy.org would be well served by purchasing ads on Google and on Bing
- join-lemmy ux needs to be improved: this goes to your point and I fully agree that there needs to be a better onboarding experience. I am a fairly technical guy and even I had trouble understanding the major concepts behind Lemmy. Many of these concepts aren’t terribly important to a new user though. At least at first.
- more and better content: this is fortunately getting better but we’re not there yet
Join-lemmy provides a subpar experience: https://lemmy.world/post/24220536
When half the posts in your feed are “X instance bad” people get just tired and go out.
It has happened to me sometimes a meaningful part of my feed was just people brigading about some instance they don’t like. It’s ridiculous.
this is about 0.1% of posts… quit lying
You can either face reality or not, literally nobody cares about your opinion on the matter. Many people who don’t join lemmy say this, that is simple fact.
okay, bye!
Been using Lemmy for a couple of years, not seen this once.
Also, the ux is pretty much the same as Reddit.
These people are just stakeholders in Reddit. They are afraid of change, or losing any rep they have. They sit on a pile of useless upvotes.
I think a lot of people that think the UX is different from reddit weren’t on reddit 14 years ago when it did look very similar to this.
Really? You never ran into the endless “…furthermore, .ml must be defederated” posts?
Cofigure swipes to hide posts and just swipe them out? Idk, it’s not hard.
This is why email never caught on. Who wants to choose between Gmail, Yahoo, MSN, Proton, and Comcast? A successful email service would be one where you can only communicate with users of the same email service. /s
People these days look weird at you if don’t use Gmail so you can’t see their Google Calendar invite or some other thing that only works with Google… People are literally pushing tech monopolies.
That was Aol.
Potential hot take: Do we even want the majority of people here?
Thats my view, I prefer that Lemmy is small, I’ve had enough of the greater internet tbh
I don’t really want them here, but I’d rather them be here than on reddit. Reddit is more toxic than this place and a lot of that comes top down. At least here people can spin off an instance the minute admins/mods act like dicks. There, the culture just gets worse and festers and it contributes to toxicity in the world outside itself. Imagine if the r/theDonald pricks have been ostracized and started their own instance which most instances defederated with quickly.
Not necessarily, but we don’t want a accidental filter that filters out non tech savvy people. We want all kinds of people on Lemmy
It’s not difficult though. They just can’t be arsed and are making excuses for being comfortable and lazy. If there was a $100 million marketing budget and their favourite celebrity was here, they’d sit an hour long entrance exam. The best we can do is make it fun enough here that people want to comment.
Hell, it can filter out tech people too. I’m a programmer by trade, but I almost dipped on lemmy because the onboarding is confusing enough. Like, I obviously (mostly) figured it out, but I did consider going “eh fuck it” and dipping. The site is ultimately a luxury and not a requirement, so effort or confusion required to get all started up is also something that’ll drive me to consider it not all worth it for some social media I’m not even sure I want to be a part of yet.
Using Boost for Lemmy and it’s almost like I never switched.
Voyager for iOS feels just like Alien Blue/Apollo
Reddit being popular is keeping the majority of people away from Lemmy.
When you get right down to it: people don’t care that Reddit is selling their information, that the site itself is a piece of garbage, that running the site requires a bunch of no-life weirdos whose numbers will only increase going forward and whose power will likewise, or that the design actively encourages bots to the point of disincentivizing actual human beings from using it.
They want their memes, they want their news, they want their niche little interest subs and they want their porn. The simple fact is that lemmy is a smaller version of Reddit with fewer options and to the majority of people who don’t care about their data or the objectively dogshit running of the site, there is no reason to cross over to Lemmy.
Until Reddit takes a Musk-type turn into being totally unuseable, lemmy will only see a trickle of users who are burned by Reddit.
Unless we fix the UX problems in Lemmy, a Bluesky-like alternative of reddit is going to pop up, and overtake Lemmy, like what happened with Mastadon
Agreed. But as long as people don’t actively leave Lemmy in favor of the new service I’d be okay with it I guess. I mean it would still be cool if Lemmy grew larger but hey, we got a nice little community here
I think the irony here is that the user-friendliness experience of Bluesky stems from it being a centralized service (in practice). I seriously doubt most people who signed up for Bluesky even understand what “decentralized social media” means.
I’m not saying Lemmy (and the greater Fediverse) can’t improve, but it’s clear that the biggest barrier for most people is the decentralized aspect itself – the core of the Fediverse – which is something one shouldn’t really “hide”.
As long as the state of social media usership demands centralized practices, then the Fediverse will forever be at a disadvantage in gaining mass adoption in my opinion.
What I don’t get is why not pretend it’s centralized and just recommend a server when you introduce someone to lemmy instead of trying to teach them?
Oh you want an alternative to Reddit, here, go to lemmy.ca since your Canadian.
It’s a solved problem. Check out phtn.app and vger.app also Alexandrite, Next and Tesseract. Like the problem is solved 5 times over.
it feels like old reddit
Wait, when did that become a bad thing? I exclusively browsed old.reddit.com because the new layout is a fucking abomination.
That’s the feature! Not a bug.
The new reddit design sucks and always has, other than dark mode.
When I first read it I thought they were mentioning that as a selling point! But yeah it seems like they’re saying it like it’s a bad thing.
I found a beautiful web client for Lemmy that I wish was the default experience. It would surely help Lemmy in gaining popoularity.
here’s the link: https://phtn.app/
Thanks for the tip Photon is great!
I use it with Alexandrite as well. Those alternative clients really made a difference in my experience on desktop.
The vast majority of people want an experience where federation is invisible. Sign up and post/comment. To maintain the benefits of decentralisation and choice, that’s never going to be a truly workable thing.
The vast majority of people don’t want to create or even participate in communities, they just want to lurk, scroll and get their new content fix. Every social media based site I’ve ever been on, federated or centralised has a large group of people complaining about the lack of new content but never take it upon themselves to apply the obvious solution themselves.
These are not necessarily UX issues, these are people issues.
Maybe its time to stop continually worrying about this subject and concentrate on creating great communities? Because if we do that then users will participate organically.
We should do both.
Give people a good UX, and build solid communities.
I’m not suggesting its impossible to improve the UX but I a) I think thats going to be an incredibly low priority for the developers and b) I’m not sure what changes can be made to address the essential conflict between the whole point of the fediverse - decentralisation - and a sign up process that essentially hides that without taking away an informed choice.
In reality, its not really that much of a difficult concept to grasp and there are loads of resources like fedi.tips etc to help people. If the communities and content was of a sufficient quality (as oppose to quantity) people would make the fairly minimal effort to understand why the fediverse is the way it is.
And if people don’t or won’t thats really their call.
but it feels like old reddit
Yes, and that’s a good thing.
There are lots of Lemmy apps that display posts in different ways. If you want “bells and whistles”, then find an app that gives you that.
You can’t do anything because these excuses are window dressing and not the core of the issue. The core of the issue is that 99% of people are incredibly unwilling to change their habits or spend five minutes to wrap their heads around how things work. If the question of which server to join is too much, this kind of space isn’t for you.
No, having a full time job or a family is not an excuse to not learn how computers or the internet or networks in general work. You’ve had a lifetime to learn and are willfully ignorant. If you just give up and run away the moment you have to apply two braincells to understand a new concept, your cognition is fucked.
Im personally fine with basic competence and tech literacy to be a natural gate keeping the unwashed morons out. Lemmy is growing at a fine pace without catering to the lowest common denominators.
Nothing, this seems like a good thing, I don’t want them here if they literally cannot even comprehend the concept of different servers, though somehow no one has this issue with discord even though it’s dogshit, almost as if they just yearn for the corporate boot.
Lmao, so true. Buhh my user experience!! As if consuming endless amounts of garbage on reddit is a good experience.
I must be in the minority because I post so rarely that I don’t sign up when I ‘join’ the platform, I sign up when I want to post something. When I first wanted to post something, I just joined the instance it was going to be on. (Also because it’s queer, which I don’t tell you about for consistency). I also don’t care that much about not seeing what my instance has defederated. Or actually, not being able to comment on it, because I actually go on programming.dev sometimes, without having an account there. I don’t really get it. The fact that my Instance technically requires an application might actually be a UX hurdle, but otherwise, you just click Sign Up, enter email, name, and password, and that’s it, right? It could be a UX problem that you miss out on content you don’t see, but you also already see a load of content that you’re not going to miss out on. Tutorials on how x-instance moving works might be cool though, if they don’t already exist. Making them more visible might limit the defederation FOMO.
we can redesign the on onboarding process.
🛑 stop explaining new terms 🛑 fuck infinite list of random names with anime girls (what do you want me to do,read!?)
Make it like a map and turn instances into buildings (or gardens/circle/doesnt matter). Show some stats like how big, who i can talk to, topic. Gamify the experience so the fatigue turns into curiousity.
