Zakopane, Poland. Greedy bastards.
Switzerland. If you’ve got buckets of money it’s fine but donair can easily run you 18 francs and a real meal will cost you 100+. I’ve visited twice and both times the extreme costs involved have hamstrung my ability to actually enjoy things. The trains and geography are amazing - but the streets full of jewelers and high fashion specifically targeting millionaires or up are an awful example of late stage capitalism.
I live in switzerland and my lunch costs CHF 2.50 so I don’t know where you’ve been eating for one hundred + francs for a ‘real meal’.
How did you get a 2.50CHF lunch? Migro prepacked sandwich?
I always struggle to find cheap lunch options.
donair can easily run you 18 francs and a real meal will cost you 100+.
What the fuck…??? 😲
Well it’s simply not true, doeners are 10-15, and meals in sitdown restaurants are 12-25. I live in Zurich, restaurants are slightly cheaper than in the US ( plus there is no tip or extra tax, what you see on the menu is what you pay) - but there are less budget options available.
I’ve visited multiple times with a camper, and if you use apps like park for night to find free or cheap places to stay!then buy your own ingredients to cook, it’s actually really acceptable. And the nature is gorgeous!
Same for me, with a bicycle and tent. Camp sites are also ok priced, at least for cyclists. Very much enjoy cycling in switzerland, i also think people are friendly. I used to have different experiences but those were just single persons / crazy people or something.
I paid 20€ for a Pizza Margherita in Oslo once. In some very rich places you can feel like a tourist from a developing country even if you are from a less-rich high-income country yourself.
Sorry but you’re exaggerating, a full meal including drinks in a mid-level establishment will be at max. 50 chf and that’s being generous. And with cheaper places you can even stay below 20 chf.
Yes, Switzerland is expensive but there’s no need to lie about it. Also the stuff about millionaires and all maybe fits a couple streets in Switzerland that are very touristy but there are plenty of places not at all like this.
A full meal including drinks will usually run 50 chf per person if you’re a couple most meals will run 100+ - it is possible to eat on a budget (we’ve usually relied on sausage stands and donair). And yea, I’m mostly talking about what you’ll find in Lucerne, Zurich, or Geneva where you’re likely to visit.
I don‘t know where you‘re eating lol. A döner in zurich is about 14-15 francs at the moment never seen one for 18 francs and they increased prices the last two years as well.
If you‘re having a meal and drinks for 50 francs per person you have likely been to a fancy restaurant. Don‘t get me wrong, it absolutely is possible to easily go over 50 francs, however its also is very easy to stay below that and still have a good experience.
Donair? What’s that? Fancy Doner Kebab made with Don Perignon and air?
It’s the French transliteration. Doner would be pronounced “donay”.
My first experience with this food was in Halifax decades ago. The Halifax Donair is a unique thing.
And it’s definitely Donair, not Doner.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donair
Interesting. The creation has a Wikipedia page.
Funny enough you are legally not allowed to call that a Döner in the EU. (Döner by law must not use ground beef. If they do you can call them Kebab,but not Döner)
y’all are missing out on the kapsalon
Belgorod.
I wouldn’t say at all cost, but Montenegro isn’t fun. Russians have built massive hotel resorts on the beaches there, the locals are unhappy that they’re there so they don’t like tourists. They’ll try to fight you on the beach because you’re not local. Get hassled by the cops because you’re not local, but you’ll be able to buy your way out of your problem if you’re lucky. People don’t want to talk to you, everyone is pretty cold and borderline rude. Go to a bar for a drink and you get a glass nominally washed/rinsed in tubs of soapy water behind the bar that the previous 100 glasses went through and hasn’t been changed out. The landscape is beautiful in a hostile sort of way, but there’s just not much reason to visit. It’s not even particularly inexpensive. The hotels will try to charge you for everything, including a scuff on the wall that you didn’t do, a chip on a planter on the balcony, etc. ridiculous money grabs.
idk about the process in montenegro, but it’s pretty normal in america for bars to use a three compartment sink with a christmas tree scrub brush stuck to the bottom of the first sink, which is filled about half full with soapy water, a rinse water mixture in the next one and a sanitizer water mixture in the last one.
it’s a fast and safe way to do dishes by hand, especially glassware if you always inspect for chips afterward (which you should be doing anyway!).
I understand there’s a right way to do it, but allow me to assure that the two murky trays behind this bar were not acceptable by any means. I didn’t want to get too graphic, but glasses went from the customer hand, a quick slosh and a rub in liquids that would make any civilized health department shriek, wiped “dry” with a filthy rag that had just wiped the bar top, filled with the next drink and handed to the next customer.
This is the kind of stuff where you see it in a movie like so: the scoundrel hero walks into a dive bar in the spaceport, orders a drink, the camera makes sure you see the pustulent, greasy alien clean the vessel using the above process. The alien pours a questionable liquid into it, and slides it to the observing hero who has been keeping a stone-faced expression but for a hint of discomposure as he receives the drink. After the briefest pause in frame to let you know he questions what he is about to do, he downs the beverage. You can’t help but cringe along with the hero and think licking the alien might have been safer.
(Am not comparing or suggesting Montenegrins are in any way shape or form like the hypothetical alien)
Feel free to cross post to [email protected] , a laid back discussion community for Europeans
is there a good or suggested community for people looking to move to europe who are looking for advice? or is that place welcome for such discussion? dont want to intrude.
This is definitely a discussion that can take place over there!
Avoid coming, because i hate you
In Sweden/Stockholm:
Avoid Akalla/Hjulsta/Kista
They are all boring and sees a lot of gang crime.
I don’t think many tourists would head out to the far away suburbs by subway. My recommendation is to avoid Drottninggatan and “City” with the exception of some architecture or particular places of interest because it is just really too much busy people and pickpockets and hot asphalt and concrete and glass and tourist traps and chain stores.
The worst thing of Copenhagen is that you can see Sweden from there
Just avoid Stockholm. Too many stockholmare. Visit Gothenburg instead
Both Stockholm and Gothenburg are really nice cities - they’re pretty safe too unless you seek out drug lords or park your bike without a decent lock. Just don’t come here during the winter - you’ll be depressed by the lack of daylight.
True, but Göteborg has its own areas to avoid. Hjällbo comes to mind…
Canary Islands. Great place, but the mass tourism is actually killing them, provoking skyrocketing rent and shortages of power and water.
how is rent related to tourism?
Think about it for a second, no, half a second and see if anything occurs to you.
Airbnbs/rentals drive up the cost of housing.
They should just make short renting of apartments illegal.
I assume because demand outstrips supply, the “value” of the rental units is inflated and landlords can charge more, pricing out locals
Indeed. My girlfriend lives there, last time I was over we went to the big demonstration against mass tourism. I felt a bit sick at the airport listening to all the north European pensioners talking about how they rent a place year round for 800€/month just to spend the odd week now and then there. While many locals working in tourism make minimum wage, around 1300€/month I believe.
Hey that’s exactly what my rent / wage split was in the UK last year. The only reason anything got better is that minimum wage went up while my rent hasn’t yet.
As others said Switzerland. It’s beautiful and all but really expensive. It really took away a big part of fun when I went there. But not only that, I thought the swiss people seemed sometimes kinda "rude"or maybe a better word for it “cold” and a little annoyed if it came to tourists. I get it, it’s a small county and a lot of people are visiting each year, but it still wasn’t fun for me to be there and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone to go there.
And North France near the German border like Strasbourg. The city and the region is beautiful as well, but the people are often like the cliché everybody knows and that sucks if you’re a tourist. But the south of France like Marseille and the Provence is always worth a visit. The people are chill, enjoying life in the typical mediterranean way and are often friendlier (and often speak English at least in the bigger cities/tourist areas).
As an Anglophone who lives in France, I agree. Although where I live (east / south-east) English is not very widely spoken, even in bigger cities, but the people are generally very friendly.
…but it all goes wrong again at the south coast. Even the locals leave for the summer.
As a counter example, I managed to make friends with a Swiss person while elsewhere in Europe, and then later in my travels got to visit them in Switzerland for a few days. My time there was truly one of the most breathtaking and memorable experiences of my trip.
Maybe it’s expensive, maybe Europeans are “cold” personality wise, but God damn they have got some incredible scenery.
I thought the swiss people seemed sometimes kinda "rude"or maybe a better word for it “cold” and a little annoyed
I have some Swiss-American relatives, and I think this is cultural. They just have a different set of indicators, they’re not going to be grinning and hugging.
cold
This is my experience with Europeans in general tbh
So knowing that European consider Swiss people cold, imagine how cold they are.
They are stone cold to foreigners - so many English speaking wealthy people live there and they are not welcomed into the local communities. It can take a decade to make local Swiss friends.
Then you should visit south europe. Europe is divided by the alps in a lot of things, like potato or tomato as main ingredient in meals. But also in culture itself. Everything north of the alps is kinda cold and seems unhappy/angry and stressed all the time and south of it people seem chill, happy and friendly.
avoid Malta at all costs.
Why?
aside from the weather (which is nicer in Sicily), it’s an archipelago that pretends at all costs to have a relevant European history while offering no way of exploring that history whatsoever. The rampant touristisation of La Valletta has turned it into what’s basically an all-ecompassing sprawl of luxury hotels and discos where prices are inflated. I did not have a nice time there and would not go back even if I had the chance.
Outside of the obvious war, Kaliningrad in certain conditions. If you have local friends there you trust, or you are fluent in Russian, you’ll have a great time. Its got a lot of nice history, some nice views, and its cheap. But if you’re an obvious tourist, they do not treat you kindly. I wore a tank top and shorts in the city on my way from Svetlagorst beach and got side eyes for my tattoos and attire. If you’re used to stereotypically polite service, it’s not as prevalent there in Russia. And if you try to be nice, you’re seen as a weirdo.
Lithuania is also hit or miss. Vilnius and Klaipeda are nice, but are NOT tourist friendly. I used to live there, but when I went back as a kid, my mom and I spoke English and Russian. They tried to overcharge our meal significantly but my mom knowing Lithuanian caught it. The people at the corner store also questioned why I only speak Russian, and hesitantly spoke with me. Plus people on the street would call out appearances if you look different. Really good fuckin pizza though
Can’t exactly blame the Lithuanians for distrusting Russians, tbh. They have been not exactly kind to the country in the recent past, with their russification and whatnot.
Yes, but you can give grace to a 12 year old child who speaks Russian with an American accent minding his own business buying an inch cream cone. Prejudices exist, but so does a brain cell. Still, I have to give grace, this was ~2009
It’s been rough for both due to the tensions. I was supposed to be Lithuanian but ended up born in Russia. My brother is Lithuanian. He would fail classes just because he was Lithuanian in a Russian school (90s). My mom had to pretend to be best friends with the teacher so he could pass. He used to also get into a lot of fights to and from school.
We immigrated to the United States when I was 5, so luckily I didn’t get that treatment in Lithuania. Fortunately, I have good memories from my Lithuanian pre-school
Not sure what answers you looking for, if you want to have a carefree vacation just read some reviews of specific countries and regions.
If you are backpacking or planning a multi-country trip I would check the crime rates of the places, there are many websites with the statistics available, like THIS
As a general rule of thumb popular places and big cities will have the highest crime rates, while smaller cities and countryside the lowest.
Also I would avoid solo trips and backpacking in general in the rural parts of less-developed countries, like Romania, etc.
Pretty much thats it. Europe as a whole is probably one of the safest travel destinations in the earth with some planning and common sense.
Ignorant North American here but I’m now legit wondering what happens to people backpacking-possibly-solo through places like Romania. 😬
Natural hazards like “If you twist an ankle you’ll get no comms service and be eaten by a bear.” aside, of course.
Buddy system is never a bad idea. :)
Nothing happens to them because all the bad parts of Romania aren’t in places where backpackers would go. Only “bad” part of visiting Romania is that tourism isn’t as developed as in other countries. So not as many signs/information/buses to and from places. That also makes lots of places harder to find and reach but also a lot more pristine. Romania’s countryside is one of the best, hands down.
Nothing. Romania is generally fine. I hitchhiked an couch surfed solo. Had only good experiences.
I’d say Romania is actually relatively safe crime-wise for tourists. Comms services are better than in my homecountry (always had 4G on my last trip to Romania even in rural places in the mountains, while I sometimes do not have any signal in German high-speed trains between two large cities). Dangerous widlife is actually an issue. Lot’s of bears, wolfes, snakes, etc. Also bad tourist infrastructure in really rural places.
No problem, its not some golden rule you should follow (especially from an internet stranger) but it’s mainly bad roads, bad economy (poor police/ambulance availability), the little Roma villages/gipsy makeshift living areas, where I would not show up alone with any valuables (similar to gipsy ghettos near big cities) and last but not least wildlife. While bears and other predators are not uncommon, rabid dogs are also a possibility.
Before somebody accuses me hating Romania (its a beautiful country with incredible landscapes and the capital and developed parts are very popular tourist destinations), the above is also applicable for many other europen countries. This is why I strongly suggest doing some research before planning such trips, as the relative safety and enjoyment of a holiday can vary from region to region within a small country. This is why its borderline impossible to give a straight answer to the original post.
Common tourist places during tourist season are usually the worst. I took a 10 day trip to Paris one summer and it was a mix of the most popular tourist places (Louvre, Eiffel tower, etc) and some underground shit my sister found.
Every tourist place was jam packed with annoying tourists, costly and had tons of scammers surrounding it. Every less known place was really awesome, aside from one sketchy neighborhood we had to walk through where we were followed for a while.
I’d also say that Northern Europe has generally been much more pleasant to travel through, for me.
Don’t go to Amsterdam.
I visited Amsterdam last month and loved every bit of it.
As someone planning on visiting there in a year or two, do you have any advice?
The public transport system will make you feel like you’re in the 2030s. Super simple. Have your smart phone or smart watch connected to a credit card, or just have a chipped credit card, and you boop your way in any transport, you boop your way out and it charges you for whatever distance you traveled.
The hotels are incredibly expensive there and we didn’t take one in the old city, but somewhere at a reasonable distance from a subway station a little further from the city center.
Do not neglect the possibility to bike in the city. We were walking everywhere, or taking trams or the subway, and I wish we biked more.
Boat tours are cool, you learn a lot. Lots of museums to visit. And if you can afford it, try these restaurants for an extraordinary experience : Wilde Zwijnen (The Wild Pig) and Moeders (Mothers).
You can visit Windmills with a 40 minutes bus ride. Pretty nice things to see and to taste (cheese!!!).
I’m reading this at Amsterdam airport. Trying to get the hell away from here asap.
Why?
because they don’t know how to pronounce Schiphol and therefore are probably lost and too touristy to ask for directions
wat is dit nou weer voor onzin?
it’s one of the more friendly capitols in europe
Why? Amsterdam is always a great time.
this is an extremely tourist friendly city. but it’s also filled with drunk pieces of shit at night. they will try to fight you for a cigarette.
And drugged pieces of shit as well. It’s a horrible city if you don’t do that kind of stuff
Yeah for sure, avoid big groups of British English speaking dudes for sure (and some of my best friends are English and they would agree!)
drunk people are garbage in general but English drunk people in Amsterdam are just fucked
Well, it’s more like we don’t want them to come here.
True, but also if you go to Amsterdam as a tourist, you’ll end up in the tourist trap places. Shady coffee shops, tours of the red light district, and over priced bars where you have to pay for toilet usage. And you can be rushed through the Anne Frank house for a price.
Fair enough!
It’s still possible, in my opinion, to visit as a “tourist” (I live in Haarlem now, so technically I’m a tourist when I go) and avoid all the trashy stuff. You can seek out the cool little neighborhoods like the Jordaan or de Pijp.
As an American (but an immigrant), who wants to go to Amsterdam, what can I do to be mindful and not annoying?
Don’t
Digitalprimate
Oh simply be polite and most of all have a sense of your surroundings/situational awareness, i.e., don’t get in the way. You probably want to spend as little time in the main “downtown” area (roughly central station to the Rokin) as possible.
Although everyone under 80 years old speak near-native English (I exaggerate), you’ll endear yourself by learning to say good morning, good evening, thanks, and please in Dutch and to start conversations by asking “Is English ok?” in Dutch.
Basically just don’t be a jerk and the native Amsterdamers will happily take your holiday money.
don’t get drunk and fall in the canal and drown when you’re trying to take a piss
Don’t get really drunk or stoned and end up being obnoxious.
Try to be aware of traffic (especially bikes) and of blocking sidewalks/alleys etc. Look both ways on every lane of traffic you cross (including both bike lanes).
Try to branch out your trip from the exact center of the city (or by the train station) and don’t rent an Airbnb inside the city center (they drive up local rents).
If you’re standing on red bricks or red tarmac, you’re probably blocking the bike lane.
If you can’t see the bike lane, it’s likely that you’re standing in it (they aren’t always marked).
As someone planning on going in a year or two, this is really good advice. Thank you.
I had a great visit there in 2013. Nearly everyone speaks English, but don’t just assume, ask (in Dutch) if they speak English. Very walkable, with pretty great transit. Lots to see just walking around. Just be a normal person and you’ll be treated fine.
Tbh even if you speak Dutch, they’ll just reply English. That’s the weird Amsterdam behavior
I think that’s kinda common in a lot of countries. If you look like you aren’t from there then they will speak in English.
I dont think so. I even replied in dutch and they still continued in English. The only place that ever happened to me
This happens in a lot of countries. For me I noticed it particularly with young people in Germany, and pretty much anyone in Norway.
Can make it slightly frustrating when actively trying to learn the language by speaking with people 😅
Aberdeen. It smells like piss.
