You must log in or register to comment.
Too expensive. Not owner repairable. Too much unnecessary tech baked in.
There’s a path forward for EV’s, but I don’t think the current philosophy is it.
Dacia spring has no unnecessary tech 😍 and is cheap
But, it is small 😂🤷🏻♀️ big enough for my family, at least.
Just hope you’re never involved in an accident, Dacias (both EV and ICE) have abysmal safety ratings.
I know 😇 and thank you for that good wish ❤️
I already had an accident, where someone drove into the back of my car. Luckily nothing happened to me and his endurance paid me for a new Spring 😁
Cost of repair would have be been about half of the price of the car itself. But I know, that the endurance somehow sold my wreck after all (had forgotten to disable tracking and was able to see the location of the old car 😂)
Coming to the US never
The answer to questions like these is always money.
It definitely has nothing to do with the outrageous starting price range.
Can anyone name me one that is a normal fucking car? With a little dial that tells you how fast you’re going that isn’t an LCD display that can’t be read in direct sunlight connected to an internet connected computer that will never get OS updates? With a gear shift lever that moves forward and back or up and down to select park, reverse and drive, not a nipple in the glove box to lick for “Forward,” a knob on the ceiling labeled “H” and to put it in reverse you honk the word REVERSE on the horn? Where the doors have handles that you pull on to open that look like door handles, and locks that have cylinders that accept keys?
Volkswagen E-golf seems to fit your description.
Been Driving one for almost 6 years and I gotta tell you the car is awesome. Sadly the battery-capacity is a bit dated. Depends on the use-case tho. Another negative point is the limited charging speed. In comparison to „modern“ EVs it‘s rather slow
Seems they’re discontinued?
Yes, the used ones are still pretty good though. I think the ID3 and ID4 are the successors to the eGolf.
Id2 is the actual successor. It’s planned to be the first VW “affordable” EV with a starting price below 25000 euros when it releases in 2025. At least they now try to target the budget market, but I’d never recommend a VW. They have done so much bad quality cars since the late 90s…
I’ve never even driven an EV, they’re comically far out of my price range.
All of them are expensive, and almost all of them are ugly as fuck. And the ones that I would consider even decent looking enough to drive are even more expensive than the others.
Would you buy one if they were more affordable? Personal experience I agree they are quite a lot of money to get behind the wheel of.
While we have plenty of gas stations to fill up with home charging can be another hurdle that’s costly or impossible depending on the living situation.
I sure would. I’m not one of those people who scoffs at modern cars.
Environmental reasons aside, they tend to have lots of bells and whistles that cars like my 20 year old Toyota doesn’t have. Parking sensors, better climate control, a multimedia system, etc.
I like my car but I’d swap it for an EV without a second thought if it was possible!
No one’s mentioned the privacy nightmare that new vehicles are. Why anyone would pay $45k for a vehicle that spies on you for the sole benefit of car manufacturers and insurance companies is beyond me. Do away with all the unnecessary privacy violations, or pay ME a monthly subscription for MY data.
A used car that has physical gauges and knobs that’s $5000 + $1500 in preventive maintenance can actually make a decent vehicle. Plus doing the maintenance yourself can teach you a lot about working on cars.
Yep, this is the reason I won’t get an EV or any modern car. Probably gonna be driving 2016 cars or older the rest of my life.
I am uncomfortable with this as a permanent solution because new cars of today are old cars of tomorrow. Apparently at least in some vehicles, the telematics module is possible to remove with loss of some functionality - seen some videos and posts on that. I think we need an iFixit-like database comparing vehicles on that front - how easy is the unit to remove and what functions it affects. To be fair, the ones I’ve seen were on newer gas vehicles, so idk if EVs usually have that integrated tighter.
Yeah it’s not my ideal solution either, but I don’t see modern cars getting any better on privacy. If some manufacturer made a stripped down, privacy preserving car I’d be all about it.
I don’t see them getting better either - so at least I, maybe because I am not educated enough, think the solution is also in learning to rip out the privacy invasions rather than waiting for regulation or privacy-conscious models.
The problem is they integrate that shit with the functions you do want like the radio and AC and then make you operate it all through a god damn touchscreen so that if you get on the highway before you realize you forgot to turn the shitty lane assist off you now have to take your life in your hands to disable it or risk it ramming you into that ladder or pothole or something because it doesn’t want you to change lanes abruptly.
I mean the cell modem specifically. But yea, the touchscreens are also a problem.
This is not specific to EVs, but is most cars from the last decade or two
Would be nice if they made ‘dumb’ EVs. Like the kind where even the windows are manual old school roll up. I don’t need to walk into a spaceship to drive to get groceries. But all they’re selling are luxury spaceships. For all the good Tesla did to rebrand the market, I feel it also did a lot of harm by creating an incentive for luxury vehicles.
Feel like this is what Fisker should’ve tried. The Ocean had the right hardware but it seemed like they spent too much effort on their infotainment instead of getting the basics right. Then target the sub-$30k market with a car that drives well with decent range and fewer gimmicks that just works.
That’s what the PEAR would’ve been
Because if you live in an apartment your only option for charging is to go to a charging location. You can’t just plug it in overnight.
Which I can see as a big hurdle for a lot of people.
What percentage of people live in apartments?
Surely those people should be taking public transport anyway not buying a car when they live downtown.
An enormous percentage, especially in the current housing market, however…
Many (most?) American cities have wildly inadequate public transit and are prone to sprawl. Many Americans live in apartments, but are a multiple mile walk from their grocery store. If there’s any public transit at all it’s probably an infrequent and unreliable bus line that may not go anywhere near their home to begin with. They live in apartments, but are not anywhere near ‘downtown’.
These are problems that need to be solved, and quickly, but public transit is best grown with a city, which didn’t happen. Inserting a subway after the fact is difficult, expensive, and slow.
The reality of right-now (which is all a renter is likely to be able to consider financially) is that a reliable car is an essential item in most parts of the country.
According to Quota its ~80% of people live in houses.
Classic 80:20 rule. Making excuses for why the most difficult 20% doesn’t work is the wrong way of thinking about it. Most of the result for least effort cones from dealing with the 80%.
You explicitly asked about apartments tho
The title is about why “Americans” aren’t buying EV’s. The excuse of them living in an apartment only applies to ~20% of the population.
That’s not enough to explain why Americans aren’t buying, just why 20% if Americans aren’t.
And like I said you don’t start with the most difficult and you don’t push a solution onto a problem when it isn’t the right solution anyway.
You realize not all apartments are located in big cities? Plenty of people live in small towns with no or shitty public transportation.
I charged my EV overnight from an overhead garage door power socket in my apartment for years before I moved out. Never even needed public charging. Many people just don’t realize you can charge from a normal household outlet
Near all apartments around me have exclusively open-air parking, so this isn’t a viable solution for many. It’s not that the available power is inadequate, it’s non-existent.
Y’all really need to go about asking your landlord to install chargers. There are even options where it charges you for power so he’s not out the cost
They’ll probably ignore the request, but at this point it’s progress to plant the seed, give them the idea, show them interest is building. Your future self will thank you
The condo my ex lives in just had a board meeting about installing chargers. It seemed like a reasonable cost and they haven’t rejected it, so it’s possible
I’ve never had an apartment with a garage. At minimum I’d have needed a 100 ft extension cord. Probably longer, which means it’d have to be thicker. Which means more expensive.
Money. That’s the answer
Of course there aren’t many people buying EVs when the only ones available in the US are high end luxury models.
Import a bunch of those cheap Chinese EVs and lots of people will buy them. It won’t hurt the US manufacturers because they don’t produce any budget models.
Import a bunch of those cheap Chinese EVs and lots of people will buy them
Or start building affordable EVs here.
Back in the 70s when Toyota, Datsun, Honda etc started eating the big 3’s lunch on affordable fuel efficient vehicles, they responded with smaller cars of their own.
If they’re not willing to respond to market demand and competition, do they even deserve to stay in business?
Isn’t that what the “free market” they claim to love enforces?
Were waiting for the next wave of $25k EV since there is no hope that the tariffs on the only country with enough scale to build affordable EV is on a 100% tariff.
At least for me the reasons are
- Lack of interest
- They’re ridiculously Ugly
- Range (I’ve driven 1500 miles in the last 3 weeks)
- Driving Experience is worse (opinion, but still something I stand by)
- Charging
- Price
When I was looking at new cars an EV wasn’t even an option. I wanted a 2 door performance coupe and there isn’t anything even close to that in EVs, let alone on the used market. A 2014 Audi was a better choice in almost every metric beyond gas prices.
Why is charging bad? Id argue it’s a plus. You never have to go to a gas station and every morning you wake up with a full charge for your day.
I don’t have a place to charge at home, nor a way to run a cord from my apartment to a car, so charging becomes a 20-30 minute ordeal instead of a 3 minute tank of gas on my way to work.
That’s fair. Charging infrastructure isn’t ready if you can’t charge at home
I would like to note that if you wanted to drive as far as possible, my car could probably go more than 5000mi in three weeks, though I typically only drive a few hundred a week.
And contrary to a gas car I never have to stop to fuel, I just get home and it charges over night.
Also, what’s wrong with the “driving experience”? It’s not loud enough or something?
I regularly do 400+ mile trips in a day or two ( I’m a photographer ) and need to be able to quickly have range available in non major metro areas.
Since I live in an apartment overnight charging isn’t an option. So I’d still have to go places to charge, which takes significantly longer than stopping for gas.
Driving experince is subjective, but instant power with no real hp/torque curves makes driving really boring. There’s no response from the car, it’s just an On/Off toggle. There’s no real fun to driving it.
Yes the sound is a major part. I’ve got a very nice, valved exhaust system on my new car that adds a ton to how much fun the car is. Hearing the engine, how it responds and how the power is applied is a major part of the fun of driving.
If all you want is a car to get from point A to point B, an EV is completely fine, but as someone who genuinely enjoys cars and driving, EVs are boring and will 100% get you laughed out of most car shows.
You’re worried it’s not loud enough and that people will laugh at you in car shows?? You’re part of the problem.
Nah, I just enjoy cars and (legal) racing.
I’m never going to be interested in an EV. They’re boring, soulless creations that don’t interest me as an enthusiast. They’re great commuter vehicles, but that’s where their use ends. ICE is always going to be preferred by car people.
You know this hobby of yours is directly or indirectly bad for the environment, for society (Middle East tensions, see 9/11), for road safety in case of SUVs that block view of children in front of it, for city planning, and I could go on. But still you’re a “car person”, so none of that matters.
Normal people will have to wait for you and other “car people” to die off for the planet to become a better place. Until then, you’re actively making things worse.
Price, range, infrastructure, in roughly that order of importance when averaged over the population. The article then goes into factors affecting price. (Of course, the article originated with the Financial Times and was only reprinted by Ars, so it makes sense that they would put money first.)
Exactly.
I’m willing to get a commuter EV, but almost everything either has too little range (e.g. older Leafs) or too much range that drives up the cost. I’m not willing to spend $30k+ on something that can really only be a commuter.
EVs don’t have the range to replace our family car since we do road trips, and anything with enough storage is already way more than a reasonable hybrid. Add to that high electricity rates at charging stations, and I’m just not interested.
So, make an affordable EV ($20k, ideally less) with 150-200 miles range, and I’ll buy it. I’m looking at used Bolts, which seem to be ~$15k after the credit for used. There really should be something new in this category though…
That’s what I’ve been saying for the last several years: give me a good commuter EV to replace my more commuter ICE. I still think two car households in single family homes are the ideal market, but i divorced my second car and spent a little more in the EV that can get me places. So far so good with road trips up to 3 hours, but we’ll see this summer with bigger road trips
Yeah, we regularly do 10+ hour road trips (10 to inlaws, 14 to my parents), and I think an EV would push those to 2 days. We take breaks for food every 300-400 miles (4-5 hours), so that’s my range expectation between refuels (we’ll sometimes refuel gas sooner if someone needs to pee). We usually eat in the car, but we could stop for 20-30 min once or twice without impacting much.
We occasionally do 2-3 hour trips (visit cousins, national parks), but it’s usually short trips or very long trips. So a small EV + larger hybrid is our current ideal, but we currently have a small hybrid + larger ICE (looking to replace both).
Current EVs seem to be trying to replace our family car, when they should be replacing my commuter, at least until battery tech improves. The Leaf and Bolt are options, but they’re kinda pricey new (used are looking very attractive).
I want a super cheap EV for 15k-20k to drive around the city, but I’m not ready to give up my gas jeep.
The cheapest EV I can seem to find is about 45k CAD new, looks stupid, and comes with a ton of features I don’t want that will just break and need repair…
I feel like Jeep owners will be the last to go EV: the car is so unique in appearance, customizable, and functionality. And it’s not like Jeep owners are looking for efficiency.
Some of Cybertruck’s announced capabilities might have bit into that market, if they’re able to deliver them eventually
Where I live, there’s one charging station. And it’s like 8 miles or so from my house. I’ve yet to see more. It’s also a fairly rural area. I think we forget how much population lives outside cities.
My entire city currently has 30 charging ports in total, half of which are either in private locations, malls, paid parking, or singular charging station spots in obscure places.
I’m not opposed to EVs at all, but the infrastructure is just not there. Not to mention the abysmal price of these
You don’t have electricity in your house??
IDK about houses, but this would be the case for people in apartment buildings. What should you do? Not even joke about “lowering a cord from your window” because it’s not guaranteed that your street parking is near your windows!
My co-worker has an electric car and lives in an apartment without a charger. Luckily our office has a few chargers and he only needs to charge it once or twice a week. If he really needed it he could charge at a public fast charger somewhere else in town, but he tries to avoid that.
Yes, of course, but in remote areas you very rarely have apartment buildings, as I recall.
That is not accurate. There are plenty of apartment buildings far away from commercial areas. They can be surrounded by rural areas or suburban areas (SFH zoning).
😮 and there are no changes at such remote apartment places?
Why would there be? Electric cars are luxury items bought by people who own homes.
Of course he does. But a standard house power connection does not deliver the amount of power you need to charge a car.
So you need to build a charging pole at your house if you want to charge ar home. Which is another investment.
And if you are in a somewhat remote area and there are not many charging poles around you, you are also very limited in how far and how fast you can travel.
So there really is no point investing in a charging pole and an EV car if the car is not capable of doing to the same things that a gas car can do.
EDIT: thanks for the responses. I’m still not convinced that electric is a good option for me, but some issues seem to be fixed or not as bad as I thought.
Still, within my price range it will take a while before I can pay one.
My car is plugged in to a normal power outlet in my garage. As long as it’s not sharing a circuit with a stove or ac compressor or something it’ll be fine, and even if it is you could work around that.
It depends on the circuit in the garage and people need to check. But trickle charging overnight is entirely feasible for many people.
Or I got a fairly cheap set of adapters that also work for 240v dryer/power tool, and RV outlets. I ought to be able to charge by y vehicle pretty much everywhere
The problem here is that you think the only viable method to charge an electric vehicle is a level 2 or above charger. The average person, even in more rural areas, generally drives less than 60 miles in a day. Which is something that can be recouped overnight with a standard 15 amp outlet. And that’s assuming it’s only plugged in for 8 hours. Most people’s cars sit idle at home much longer than that. You don’t even need to go Fancy with a dryer Outlet much less a level2 charger.
Unless you’re somewhat remote area is over 200 mi from the nearest charger the majority of electric vehicles will get you there without you having to drive like a grandma. As many of them have somewhere on the order of 250 to 280 miles of range on a full charge now.
It’s nowhere near as bad as you think. A level 2 charger is essentially an electric stove circuit, and the chargers are only a few hundred dollars. I had to do both this year and there really wasn’t a significant cost difference. I charge once or twice a week for a couple hours. It’s quite reasonable to install a level 2 charger if you have a single family house with off street parking
Or for like $150, I got a full set of adapters to charge pretty much everywhere. In addition to a regular outlet, I can plug into a 240v dryer/powertool/heater/ac outlet, or an RV outlet for a faster charge.
While I do have many charging stations nearby (and I’ll bet that’s far more common in the population than people who don’t), with a home charger, I’ve never had the need to use a public charger less than 100 miles from here
