I’ve used proton for a year or two now and it is fine. Great for use on my phone when I want to use public/airport wifi and it sort of kind of works with gluetun (the rotating port is annoying but it still is a forwarded port).
But I’ve increasingly been annoyed with Proton as a company and am looking to migrate my email/domain to fastmail in the very near future. I COULD continue to just pay for the vpn (60 USD a year is pretty reasonable) but also feel like this is a good opportunity to “shop around”
Checked the wiki and other FAQs (which all basically crib from said wiki) and they all basically boil down to proton or mullivad… except that mullivad apparently stopped allowing port forwarding which is a bit of an issue for any torrents and the like.
So are there any other good options?
Thanks
I’ve used AirVPN for this exact setup and it works great. The port forwarding is static and doesn’t change once setup. I switched to proton because it was convenient, I was already paying for ProtonMail et all, so I dropped the extra VPN subscription when it renewed.
Not a VPN, but you may also want to look into I2P.
https://proprivacy.com/privacy-service/guides/i2p-guide
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FNp0TRDG0BQ
Basically, a p2p protocol for the entire internet.
Its considerably more complicated to set up than most modern VPNs, where nowaday’s its usually as simple as install an app with a GUI, verify some settings and you’re good to go, and i2p is also quite slow…
… but its totally free, and you can torrent over it, and as far as I know, if you’ve set it up properly, it is basically undetectable by ISPs, due to how it uses ‘garlic’ routing: basically, a whole bunch of users net requests are encrypted, anonymized, and then smashed into a big packet… so an ISP would have to untangle all of that for every packet, and afaik, none of them have figured out how.
I2P would obviously be horrible for watching streaming content though, snail speed.
Great for use on my phone when I want to use public/airport wifi
If you just want the tunnel encryption you can try hosting a VPN on your own home network. It’s what I do since I don’t need to spoof my location.
You are asking in the piracy community so I’m assuming you’re also using it to torrent (which a home VPN won’t help with) but you didn’t specifiy so I’m not sure
What’s going on with Proton the company?
Edit: ah fuck, thanks for the replies. Sigh.
Like basically all tech companies, the leadership are libertarian tech bros. It sucks, but whatever. The problem is also that the CEO (?) has been making public statements to try and cozy up to the trump administration over the past few months
Some of that still falls under the LTB effect (These policies benefit the company so fuck everyone else, etc) and it DOES make sense for a company to try and earn themselves an exception for the upcoming hellscape in a market that will REALLY want VPNs. But it still leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
Not in an “I MUST LEAVE PROTON NOW” state since I like the products because they tend to be pretty honest about what they will and won’t do when the goons come a knocking and that mostly boils down to “cooperate. So do X Y and Z to protect yourself by preventing us from having the information they want”). But that, plus protonmail being kind of a shitshow if you want to keep offline copies of your emails, is motivation to shop around.
I wouldn’t exactly call Tim Berners-Lee a “libertarian tech bro”.
The CEO said that Trump chose a great pick and sided with Republicans and there was a firestorm over it, he doubled down on his position through the official Proton channel.
Ffs I literally just got proton. Fuuuuuck that
Their CEO praised Trump/the Republican Party. He got widely criticised for it. Proton released a damage control statement but later deleted it after it made things worse.
People are now moving away from Proton as a result.
It would be more accurate to say some people are moving away. The majority of their users are quite happy where they are.
I am not, but it took me a year+ to move from Gmail to Proton after having a Gmail account since the start of the service, and after i was more or less settled in now comes this scandal, i will move but it will not be immediately, need to plan it well, and also likely use a custom domain to not need to change the address in the future
If this is as bad as the scandals with Proton ever get, I’ll be quite happy.
“Time to find a CEO who has yet to publicly express their fascist sympathies…”
The irony of saying something like that when you’re using an ISP with Trump supporters on the board of directors is wild.
To be clear I’m parodying the people who think there are corporate safe havens where they can vote with their dollars.
Ah, I should have guessed that from the quotes, huh? That was my bad.
No worries, we’re all so sarcasm-and-irony pilled given internet culture and current events that I should have been more explicit too.
Wow! Add me to that group. I need to cancel my annual family plan.
I unfortunately bought a subscription before dickhead made his statement. Looks like I’m with them for a year >.<
I haven’t done it yet, but if you cancel your and contact them, I’ve heard you can get a refund for the months you haven’t used. Even if you cancel but don’t contact, you still can use the service until the end of your subscription.
My biggest thing stopping me rn is moving my emails away from proton mail and simpleogin (switched to mailbox.org and anonaddy free) and trying to convince myself I don’t need port forwarding 😭
https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e worth a read regarding that situation.
Who knew pirates were such babies they can’t use a product simply because the ceo has differing political views. Insane.
Wait til they hear that Tor was developed and is largely run by the US military.
People don’t support things and people they think are wrong, what a wild concept
You’re talking about a community that supports piracy lol. Not exactly the moral compass you’re pretending they are.
No it’s insane to continue supporting companies when their leadership doesn’t align with your ideals. The only power you have is choice. Now run along and continue being the good little consumer you’ve been made to be.
You’re acting like their CEOs political leaning makes any difference at all to the company. It doesn’t. All people like you are doing is making sure everyone just hides their opinions to fool numpties like yourself.
Run along and draw some swasticas on cars while calling yourself the good guys.
Capitalism has really done a number on you. It’s sad. You even admit you have to hide your opinions, but can’t understand what that really means. Ah well. It’s not like you matter anyway so keep in being a piece of shit with no self awareness!
I don’t hide my opinions, clearly, you absolute pencil.
Communism/leftism has really done a number on you.
The CEO doesn’t own Proton, for what it’s worth. He may have founded it, but he does not have complete and total control over anything that Proton offers, as some here may believe.
Proton recently closed their masterdon account because of the mutual hostility
*Mastodon
if anything they’ve reopened their account with Master Don
Just FYI, the majority of Proton AG (which includes all Proton services) is owned by a non-profit body called the “Proton Foundation”. This are headed by a board of 5 members, including Andy (CEO) and Tim Berners-Lee (the literal father of the internet as we know it).
Proton is fine.
routing traffic through Israel is not fine.
Then don’t do that? You have your choice of servers.
This is a decontextualized post from 2015 that theorizes a DDoS attack on Proton at the time was coercion to “help” them by offering to proxy their traffic through Bynet in Israel for the purpose of tampering. Is there any other info out there to support this theory? It’s intriguing and believable but also complete hearsay absent any other corroboration, context, further info, etc.
I don’t trust proton. if you think you can trust proton, feel free to use them.
I think you’re picking up subtext in my comment that isn’t actually there. If you don’t have more info that’s OK, I can do my own research.
That didn’t answer the question. You made an assertion, but haven’t provided any evidence to support that claim.
Please elaborate
It should be noted everywhere that this person posts this, that this is an allegation without any actual evidence to support it.
the post is the evidence.
No, the post is a conspiracy theory that gives no evidence to support the claim. You can’t use an allegation as evidence to support your allegation, that’s circular logic.
Omfg why even discussing andy pathetic bootlicking when this is a fucking cia honeypot… Their business plan was way too similar to google.
Andy yen praising trump is one thing and I kind of don’t care about that so much. What I do care about is how proton practices predatory sales to cash in on FOMO. Or if you subscribe for one month it’s an auto renewing subscription. Or that the best rates are if you sign up for a year. It’s weird for a not-for-profit structure to do billing like this
Mullvad doesn’t play games. A flat price and you get what you pay for.
Andy Yen may have praised one situation, but doesn’t seem to support Trump overall. https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
AirVPN, IVPN, Mullvad, Windscribe
The requirement for port forwarding narrows that down to AirVPN and Windscribe, which is an unfortunately small set of choices.
What exactly does port forwarding do and why is it better for torrenting like I’ve heard? I’ve been using Mullvad for a couple of years now but if I could get faster torrent download speeds that would be great
Port forwarding lets you connect with other hosts peer-to-peer which a VPN would otherwise block if both sides are behind one. For torrents you’d get more peers (which doesn’t matter if you’re just downloading the latest and most popular stuff) and be able to seed more effectively.
And the way that many (most? (all?)) private trackers implement their monitoring kind of requires an open port.
Not all torrent sites require an open port. E.g. MAM works without an open port. It majorly impacts your ability to seed) but that isn’t a problem because of how much bonus points you get. TL does not either.
Thanks!
Still using Private Internet Access (PIA).
Honestly, dunno why they’ve fallen out of fashion due to the FUD about being owned by an unsavoury parent company, but the most important matter to me is if they keep logs, which they don’t. One of the few VPN companies tested on this, in court, and in a recent audit. Plus still extremely cheap (if you go for 3yr+3mo).
Port forwarding works with with this docker NAS stack. Doesn’t use gluetun, but there’s a specialised docker-wireguard-pia container as part of the stack, with a script that handles port changes. Been flawless.
Yeah they are throroughly vetted and work well, competitively priced. I’ve never seen a reason to switch.
Can you link to their court hearing, specifically where they refused to provide logs?
Also, do they accept crypto?
They didn’t refuse to provide logs - they don’t have logs to provide.
Yes to crypto, via Bitpay.
I’m curious now, though - what’s stopping a US court from ordering all US-based VPN services to retain logs?
They would shut their servers down in US. The reputable ones that is.
Sure, but I’m curious why it hasn’t already happened. Wouldn’t it be spun as “destruction of evidence” or whatever? Or could it be argued that since their “no logs” policy was established prior to any particular suspect utilizing their services, that it would not be destruction of evidence as there would’ve been no evidence to begin with?
I’m genuinely curious, this shit fascinates me.
I’m using gluetun with PIA and it works like a charm. Gluetun even has a template on their GitHub.
I have been happy with PrivateVPN, but I can’t get a read on them.
They say no-log, but many VPNs probably lie about that. Small, based in Sweden.
I just saw on the kumo app literally just now that they got bought out by Miss Group and are no longer independent like when I started with them in 2019.
They have no strikes against them besides the not-disclosed buyout. No idea if I should switch, but they have good prices and port forwarding.
If you want port forwarding the choice is between AirVPN, ProtonVPN and Njalla. Iirc PIA also supports port forwarding, but their ownerships reputation is no good.
Mullvad, IVPN and many other services don’t support port forwarding.
Why do we care about their ownership if it’s proven that they don’t log and let you forward ports?
I get what you’re saying and I use proton despite the kerfuffle with their CEO, but where privacy is concerned yes I do care about the reputation of the company to an extent. To not care about that all would be very silly. Too much trust involved.
You’re right but if it’s something that sensitive I’d rather use TOR/I2P
Given there’re alternatives I’d rather choose an independent service instead.
But that’s a personal decision which is why I mentioned PIA with the disclaimer, instead of ignoring them.
Do you have any experience with Njalla? This would be my first time purchasing a VPN and I couldn’t imagine a better provider on paper.
I just don’t know anything practical about it besides it’s founded by a member of the swedish pirate party.
Why is NordVPN not mentioned ? I’m using it and happy so far. Should I switch to something else ?
No Port forwarding
if you care about privacy , yes, you should
Why ? Asking seriously because they got multiple certifications about their no-logs policy done by independent third parties.
Too much advertising, it just feels off.
I think a safe assumption is that anyone that runs over half of their budget in ads can’t be trusted.
I have no opinion of them, but I’m curious why advertising would imply untrustworthiness. Are you saying they’re too eager or something? Spending money on ads is also consistent with a company that’s making money by charging for a service — I’d be more suspicious of free VPNs.
My experience with products that lean so heavily into the sponsors is that they’re usually mediocre in terms of your overall choices. Basically, the ads kind of give me bad vibes. I admit, it’s not a rational judgment, but I won’t go out of my way to find out if NordVPN is actually good when there are alternatives.
If many people feel the same way, it may be evidence that sponsors are an outdated method of advertising.
It is more than a bit of a fallacy, but the general idea is that any product worth using will distinguish itself. Whereas the products that spend vast amounts of money on advertisement “can’t stand on their own”.
Like I said, it is a fallacy that insists companies should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and ignores the reality of the landscape these days.
THAT said: nordvpn goes REALLY hard on the advertisements and is still one of the more popular/few remaining big sponsors for podcasts and influencers. And THAT gives me pause because it has generally been shown that those are horrible venues for “getting a product out there” and mostly exist to take advantage of parasocial relationships. And, based on the linus media group leaks and corroboration from various twitch streamers, the big outfits are asking for a LOT of money per sponsorship spot.
And considering there is no way to really vet a VPN and you are inherently trusting them to do what they say they do (or do the good version of what they don’t even bother to talk about)…
You’d probably be surprised that the companies that spend the most money on advertising are the biggest and most successful companies on the planet.
The number of leads youtube/podcast advertising generates is not that impressive, the number of leads that become buyers is even less impressive. When a company spends too much on this type of advertising for a product that is not “premium”(meaning overpriced shit), it casts a shadow of doubt on where they get their revenue.
Just throwing in another voice for PIA. Their corporate owners may be questionable, but I’ve been with them since before they sold out and have never heard a peep from my ISP for seeding terabytes of torrents. They don’t keep logs, and they are audited to prove it regularly.
EDIT: They also have port forwarding, but not for every exit server.
PIA is such a weird one. They’re massive and know what they’re doing but ownership and jurisdiction have always been questionable. I have long suspected they cooperate with GHCQ but only on legitimate national security cases not piracy.
I really like express VPN, and the app is open source.
I love Mullvad, but if you need P2P its not the best option. If you just need a VPN, though, its amazing. Today I just switched to AirVPN and am running it on Arch through Eddie. Have my qbittorrent set up to only allow connections through Eddie and just forwarded my first port. I’m very happy with it.
I think the only downside is that I could get Mullvad for 5eur a month on a month by month basis. AirVPN is 7eur or 15eur for three months, so I have to lock into the three months to get the same price.
Worth noting that Italy (location of airvpn) hates vpns and is constantly fucking around with them, to the point air doesn’t even actually operate in Italy to preserve users privacy. Right now, theres no immediate risk, but it’ is worth keeping an eye on the political situation in Italy regarding VPN laws
I did read this somewhere before. I just have to take my chances at the moment. My other option was Windscribe, but unless you’re paying for a year+ their prices are astronomical.
Yeah I use airvpn myself, its just worth throwing that info out for full transparency/disclosure
What’s wrong with NordVPN?
Mostly misleading ads
I’m with Azire, they have port forwarding and 10 gig servers. Note they were bought recently by malwarebytes, so it is possible things will change in the future. For the time being, things have been great. I moved from OVPN after myself and others started experiencing persistant failures.
I’ve been meaning to try out CryptoStorm. If anyone has experience with them please share.
Cryptostorm. Supports port forwarding, and you can buy access tokens through third parties using crypto. You do not register an account or provide them with any information to use the service, other than the token.
But honestly, Proton is the best route to go.
