This is the kind of content the .ml admins cultivate through their bans and censorship. They’ll frequently remove articles from credible good sources that directly go against their narratives, while allowing misinformation and conspiracy websites to include RT, Sputnik and (as shown) random substack blogs as long as they tow the narratives that align with them.
E.g. Ukraine is a Nazi regime and Russia is just “liberating” the Ukrainian people
Join the lemmy.ml boycott today and help foster a better Lemmy-verse! No more posts, comments (except to counter their propaganda ofc!) or upvotes on any comms on the Lemmy.ml instance!
And consider donating to individual instances instead
.ml was the most tolerable of the tankie triad to me for a long time, but I eventually blocked it as they got worse and worse.
It’s mostly the exact same people as the rest of the triad, they just keep their masks on a little bit better when they’re on .ml.
This is why I don’t donate to the devs because it indirectly goes to .ml. This is also why people think Lemmy is nothing but tankies because they’re ok with that image.
i’m so glad piefed is picking up steam! once voyager support is good i’m done with lemmy and donating to piefed
Still waiting for that to jump ship
This is also why people think Lemmy is nothing but tankies because they’re ok with that image.
Which is why I advocate for pushing large instances, like .world, to defederate as they have for the other 2 instances in the Triad
We can’t force .ml offline and we can’t force them to install an actually unbiased and fair admin team.
But we can control our association with them, if the rest of the network defeds from them at the very least we can all say “yea they’re there, but we’ve cut ourselves off from them because they’re nuts” and I think that could go very far
I recommended to people to go to Lemmy, and then I got told “you mean the place where it is full of tankies?” Tankies give the entire community a bad name.
Username doesn’t check out.
interestingly, a healthy portion of thethreadiverse is quite anti-tankie precisely because of these instances.
They’re still pushing the “Ukraine are Nazis, here’s zero proof!” narrative?
Yeah, so here’s the thing. The Azov Battalion was a Nazi force up until they were obliterated during the Mariupol massacre. It’s since been somewhat denazified but they still continue to fly the modified wolfsangel. This is all the Russians can point to. But remember the Russian Wagner group? They too were full fledged Nazis so it’s utterly stupid for Putin to point fingers. But that’s not the point, it’s just a very flimsy reason for the Russians to justify the invasion.
This is all just what I remember from research years ago, but at one point there was a pretty large chunk of nazis/sympathizers in azov specifically. They cracked down on extremism since then, but it’s conceivable there’s a few left.
Now using that to call every single Ukrainian servicemember and child a nazi to justify actual imperialism? Average braindead tankie take.
It’s a weird kind of projection. The Russian military is full of nazis. Not that’s it’s surprising since nazis tend to gravitate towards the military. Wagner for example was founded by and full of nazis, but tankies seem to be OK with that.
They cracked down on extremism since then, but it’s conceivable there’s a few left.
Also the most extreme ones are the ones that died first and after broad mobilization the relative proportion shrank naturally. That’s just maths.
And even if these two were not the case, Ukraine has a simple explanation:
When asked about one of the two Russian groups fighting on Ukraine’s side, one being extreme racists who want to make Russia smaller to get rid of regions with non-Russian ethnicities, a government official, maybe even Zelensky personally, said to the press that Ukraine does not have the luxury to pick who fights on their side when the alternative is rape and genocide.
Actually they posted this
Oh damn, they’re not even pretending to not being a Russian mouthpiece anymore?
Tankies have always regurgitated Putin propaganda.
Yes lol. But they used to pretend they didn’t before
They straight up tell to the face of the victims of communist genocide and mass murders that “its your fault your country was completely inhibited by nothing but literal SS nazis and honestly that also makes you a nazi”
You can go point by point comparing russia and nazi germany. All they have to say is well it can apply to any western country as well.
This is all vibe based ideology. Like MAGA, fascism and nazism was.
“Vibe based ideology”. That’s so spot on, perfect!
I don’t remember a time where they attempted to pretend. It’s just recently they started getting heavy with the site wide bans though.
well just blacklist them, make it an echo chamber so it doesn’t show literally anywhere else in the fediverse
Unfortunately, the “block” isn’t really a block on Lemmy, it’s barely a mute and that goes for user and instance blocks. Because dessalines refuses to implement a proper system (unsurprisingly). It’s been 4 years since “blocks” rolled out
In any case it still allows their toxicity and misinformation to spread, trolling new users who come here unaware of the need to block and such
Really, the best answer is to call for wide defederation like the rest of the Tankie Triad is treated
I think ultimately issues like this will be why I don’t choose Lemmy when I finally get around to standing up my own threadiverse node.
PieFed! I’m more attached to Boost than the underlying server software anyways, so if it ever gets PieFed support I’ll be leaving for that
Is piefed a Lemmy alternative? There are so many new things (very cool!) out there, and Lemmy starts to lose it’s luster IMO, not very much interesting news or discussions, lots and lots of “gEnOcIdE” troll bullshit (I mean you can’t even ask questions to these people).
Yea, for the most part, but it’s still fully federated so you’ll still be part of the Threadiverse and will be able to fully see and interact with all of Lemmy’s content and users without issues
But, on PieFed, at least block means block, blocking lemmy.ml or any other instance on PieFed blocks comms and users alike and blocking an individual user on PieFed means they won’t be seeing any of your comments or posts. So none of this mute BS on Lemmy where problematic users can still brigade your content and comment “behind your back” on your posts/comments without your knowledge
I’m leaning that direction if only because I have decade-old Python experience which I could potentially dust off and use to contribute to development if I start “dogfooding” PieFed and find things I want to fix or improve.
It gives them more strenghts. The same happened with /thedonald.
The story at present has 9 upvotes, 12 downvotes. The OP posted:
If any salty Nazi cheerleaders want to complain that this isn’t a news source, you’re wrong. This is an active military correspondent’s blog giving a timeline for events which are not debatable. Better luck next time.
… which has 4 upvotes and 1 downvote.
I would bet money that one or two of the upvotes on it are from the .ml moderation/admin team.
dessalines upvoted it
I tried using lemvotes.org to check the votes, but I have had trouble getting that site to work for checking votes on some comments. Not sure why.
Edit: also having trouble checking votes on the post as well. Odd.
I think lemmy.ml defederated from them.
Every other site more or less doesn’t care. Your Lemmy votes are not private. But, lemmy.ml as always cares deeply about controlling the narrative, and talking about who is voting and how and how often particular .ml users feature in the voting patterns, disrupts their ability to pretend that they’re standing up for normalcy and a handful of isolated “liberal” instances are the weird ones who love censorship.
it would be incredible if they convinced .world to share their vote data instead of having their own instance
It’s not really necessary; 100% of what you need gets federated out to anyone who asks for it, so it’s pretty easy to just set up a little instance for yourself and then do whatever data mining you want to do.
but for things like lemvotes, they can block the faux-instance that they’ve created to get the data… if they were to get the data via .world it’d be almost impossible (without inside information) to know who to block - and it’s .world, so blocking that is a big choice
You’re betting that they would be unwilling to block .world in a way that they would be willing to block lemvotes… hm, you might be right. IDK, I’m just not sure it is all worth that much bothering about. That kind of tit for tat of blocking/defederating and then making new stuff to get around the blocking, to try to force somebody to share information they’re trying not to, is just kind of silly I think. Better to just address it by talking it out and being reasonable as opposed to having dueling software systems trying to enforce one person’s will on another person’s system. But, IDK, good luck getting a reasonable and productive response out of either lemmy.ml or lemmy.world admin teams…
I think whatever shadow instance lemvotes uses either doesn’t federate with .ml or .ml blocked it (I can’t imagine why they’d do that though!/s lmao)
I suspected that may be the case, but I am still able to look up .ml users and see their individual votes. Wouldn’t defederating from the lemvotes instance block that too?
Just checked a .ml user profile I know to be prolific, the last votes it had were from April 29, so that’s probably when they got blocked and it’s just a cached version
If you know of a new .ml user that was made after then and it doesn’t pull up with them, then that’s def what happened
Ah, that would make sense. Thanks!
Same reason .world did probably
Nope, man you just love to spread false narratives don’t you?
Here’s @[email protected] votes for the comment just above. A .world account.
Well it certainly doesn’t always work, so I quit bothering. Interesting enough when I did bother, every DV was from this instance.
Probably most admins prefer not to facilitate petty lemming drama threads like this one.
Yet here we are. 🙃
Use the Fediverse link (the star) not the normal one (the chain) to get the url.
Yeah, tried that, still doesn’t work. Pretty sure they have the lemvotes shadow instance defederated because accountability or transparency is for westoids
https://kbin.earth/m/[email protected]/t/1559796/THE-LUGANSK-PEOPLE-S-REPUBLIC-HAS-BEEN-LIBERATED-FROM-THE-NAZI/comment/7556873/favourites(You have to copy/paste)
How many monis you gib?
I gib 0
100% are from .ml, Hexbear, or Lemmygrad.
I got curious about one Hexbear user, and looked at their profile, and I learned that no one can name any specific human rights abuses China has ever done, and also nobody “here” talks about Israel’s human rights abuses.
Clearly
Those are the most likely instances to believe in conspiracy theories. Spent a few minutes confirming as much via upvote tallies. I didn’t realize how badly lopsided it was, until now.
Yeah. And, also, it is clear when you look at votes that they make organized efforts to “brigade” threads sometimes, all come in and vote to influence the totals, which is something that they constantly accuse others of doing whenever their unpopular views get noticed and dogpiled on.
Every accusation is a confession. Tankies really are like their conservative brethren.
Authoritarians gonna authoritarian
I don’t mean to make much out of little, especially when there are real-world enemies that are endangering us all that we could be focusing on. But it is interesting to me how little regard most of the Lemmy communists have, for anyone’s right to exist in their space who expresses any kind of dissent or disagreement, and how unapologetic they are about wielding power without regard for anyone except their own faction.
I bet the dv’s are from .world brigaders too
.ml has a persistent myth that it’s all lemmy.world that is “against them” and dislikes the Russian government. It’s part of their attempt to pretend they are the majority. By implication, every other Lemmy instance is neutral, apparently, except “the liberal instances” (which turns out to be basically all of them).
I’m sure the downvotes are from off-instance brigaders, if you want to call it that. I have no idea why they would be centralized to lemmy.world, and I doubt they are.
I go by what I see here and with my own eyes, there.
How did you come to conclusion that the downvotes were probably .world brigaders?
I think we both know how disingenuous this is. The thread posted, dv’s started rolling in. And I think it’s sad people who vicariously self-validate with hypocritical, attention - seeking behavior in the same manner as politicians they whine about use the same behaviors and same “plausible deniability.” Sadder still that rather than taking a moment to explore the reflection of the shadow that got us our current politicians, more of the same behavior.
At least two itt were hardcore genocide deniers wrt Palestine, when I got here and now act like they thought it was always plain to see. I hope the situation regarding Russia, Ukraine, and the USA isn’t as dire as that before people start at least looking at information provided by those users, repeatedly, since I got here. Because I used to be in denial, too.
So when did you see the lemmy.world downvotes with your own eyes? Here or there?
Lol I’m just messing with you, honestly. I don’t think there is all that much productive exchange to be had here.
I’m not. You know exactly what I’m talking about. And you said you were doing better. Are you?
well of the people downvoting this “theory” of yours right now, 3 of 13 are .world so i’d wager that’s a load of crap
and as for brigading, .ml users get downvoted to hell across to fediverse in comments… their opinions are just horrible and their arguments are not made in good faith
Muh evil brigaders
I just encountered the OP of that post today, saying EU is not real. You just can’t with these people.
Mmm yes, must be a very reasonable author that goes by the name “AVATAR OF VENGEANCE” on the internet
.ml is great if you need to borrow some crayons. But that’s pretty much all they’re good for.
i’d prefer to borrow crayons without having to dig them out of peoples noses tyvm
Damn they are still shilling that 3 years into this war.
Jfc… They need to call their handlers and get updated talking point
This is pathetic level propaganda
This is why I’ve blocked every major .ml instance that pops up on my feed.
Remember there is only one person on Lemmy obsessed with screaming how .ml are tankies and it is cm0002. The most obvious fed in Lemmy history.
Lol, lmao even! Hey, anyways I still haven’t gotten my paycheck, do you have the number for CIA HR?
Do you also call out NYT?
Do you call out the LW moderators for banning dropsitenews?
Ah whataboutism, the last refuge of the scared and confused tankie when faced with reality.
Hypocrisy, the final form of the genocide defender. Would be less embarassing if he did not actively cite a Zionist propaganda website to defend Israel
Removed by mod
americans being fucking idiots and setting up their entire country to exploit themeslves in the name of american exceptionalism and freedom does not mean democracy is a lie. It means you should fix your country, not idolize deranged mass murdering fuckheads who failed at everything, eg stalin, lenin, mao, pol pot etc.
Dude I’ve poured concrete less dense than you, and my house is still standing.
If you’re too dumb, and I refuse to apologize for using ad-hominem replying to comments like yours, to see that russia is brutally attacking and slaughtering innocent Ukrainian civilians, then there is just no hope left for you.
Hope you step on Lego, you troll
So US unarmed Canada and Mexico many years ago and they just follow what they are told. Why shouldn’t Russia do the same?
I believe Putin tried handling this peacefully for a very very long time.“The US violated their neighbors’ sovereignty, why shouldn’t Russia do the same?”
What if imperialism is bad when anyone does it?
You sound extremely intelligent and informed. With that, I am super curious how you stay informed about the world. What news sites do you frequent, for starters?
has there been shareable rigorous proof that the units in Ukraine are not nazis? I know proving a negative (ie: none are) is impossible but there must be proof debunking stuff like “this patch is a nazi patch”?
—-
and before others ramp up the pitchforks because someone honestly wanted to share links here is my reply expounding my thoughts:
fi am saying i would love a list of links to share with the assholes that show them the prop they pushed was wrong.
why does that mean to you i “need hard proof” to believe something? i just want links. triggering yourself because someone asked for some info says a lot about how you may need to disconnect a hot minute.
my neighbors are refugees from ukraine. i adore them. i can’t just ask them “why do assholes in the US claim you are nazis?” they have lost it all already.
so … yeah. have you seen anything that is shareable with the russia agitprop assholes? not that they are convincible but yeah… helps to share.
—- that the pitchforks keep coming and the ire about wanting links says a lot, folks. be rigorous.
The fuck… Ukraine was attacked…and you’re suggesting that their needs to be hard proof that the entire country isn’t Nazis? WTF
That and doesn’t the burden of proof fall on those making the claim? What business is it of anyone’s to prove Ukraine isn’t Nazi. When no one had proven it is.
Precisely. “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof” and all that
the proof and its burden is not in question, the source of truth and its debunking is.
ie: share links debunking the claims. they must exist? turns out they do! someone else replied with what i was looking for. :)
To the people that accept russian propaganda, truth is irrelevant. If you waste time giving them proof of the basic truths the willfully reject. You have only wasted your own time and done exactly what they wanted. In this way they can keep thousands of foolish well-meaning people from simply dismissing their accusations as deserved.
i understand the sentiment. however personally I keep links to this stuff because it is important to me. thanks for your reply.
Feels a lot to me like “Well imagine if you were gay in Gaza”. Whether or not there’s a lot of shitty elements to their culture, imperialist aggression is evil and civilians don’t deserve to be killed and have their homes and children stolen, and the side you support should be perfectly clear from that alone (I say all this knowing I’m probably more likely to be hate crimed for being gay in Ukraine than Gaza, because again, a country having a lot of nazis doesn’t excuse invasion and ethnic cleaning)
and did you not comprehend the concept of proving a negative? i mentioned it in my reply even. sheesh. read my other reply too.
fuck no. i am saying i would love a list of links to share with the assholes that show them the prop they pushed was wrong.
why does that mean to you i “need hard proof” to believe something? i just want links. triggering yourself because someone asked for some info says a lot about how you may need to disconnect a hot minute.
my neighbors are refugees from ukraine. i adore them. i can’t just ask them “why do assholes in the US claim you are nazis?” they have lost it all already.
so … yeah. have you seen anything that is shareable with the russia agitprop assholes? not that they are convincible but yeah… helps to share.
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/only-the-ruling-elite-in-ukraine-are-nazis-not-ordinary-ukrainians/
https://www.bbc.com/news/64718139
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/
FYI, posting these on .ml will likely lead to you being instance banned and then you’ll be able to proudly display this achievement unlocked!
thanks for the links!!
Ah, well you’re first comment did not communicate that well at all. You sounded like you wanted proof that Ukrainians weren’t nazis. It read like some tankie ML shit.
the reply to me was, indeed, seemingly written in a triggered haste because at black and white glance it does indeed ask for links.
I am well aware that you’re “just asking questions,” ho ho, but this question actually does have a specific and interesting answer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
The TL;DR is this: The closest thing Ukraine has to a neo-Nazi party, which is honestly pretty close to one, had some pretty strong legitimate support before the 2014 revolution. Basically, “anyone but Russia” was the thinking of a lot of people, and Svoboda showed a willingness to do things like get in fistfights with pro-Russian politicians which got them some credibility and support. Basically, the same type of faux-populist “back to greatness, we’ll fight for you” appeal that Trump was able to ride in the US, and it did legitimately work. They got 10% of the vote in 2012, and they won majorities in some places.
In the aftermath of 2014, once there were populist candidates who were not eager Putin’s-knob-slobberers available (and, also, when their Nazi tendencies were starting to become a lot more obvious), their support cratered like a poorly designed submersible. In the 2019 elections, they Voltroned up with all the other fascist parties, hoping to merge support and at least meet the 5% threshold to keep some kind of representation in government, the aggregated blob still just got 2%, surely only that high because it really wasn’t that long ago when they were seen as a legitimate and helpful party.
TL;DRTL;DR: If Russian wanted to denazify Ukraine, they could have just done another Euromaidan, that was by far the most effective denazification event that has happened for decades in Ukraine.
Great summary. I enjoy the rebuttals that typically consist of grotesquely twisting Victoria Nuland’s words. There’s a link below of exactly that, even.
You can go there for a list of links to Western media that went on and on about the Nazis in Ukraine before the western initiated war against them. It’s what changed my mind, because at the time, at least, those links were still very much live links.
This user is a long since tagged Tankie that just referred to .world/SJW as “The Nazi Instance” for calling attention to a clear misinfo “source” being put out as “news”
I can confirm, when I scrolled down a big red label with the word “Tankie” appeared next to his user name. That must mean something?
Where’s the lie? Here’s more for you:
Don’t those same people often accuse hexbear of brigading?
Again, where’s the lie, Mr "I can’t self-validate and attention seek to make up for it?”
The lie would be anyone on here talking about brigading that post but you. I don’t even see it linked in this thread at all
Edit: thinking about this some more, your take is even more fuck-stupid considering OP is the main force behind the lemmy.ml boycott which encourages people not to participate on the instance whatsoever
well I have an acct there too. since I am, in all actuality, much a lefty. my initial reply was in good faith because I believe folks need to come with links not rhetoric, and now that I have them, (it was in another reply), I can take them back over the wall.
I’m a socialist. I largely stopped going there when they decided anything other than the prevailing view of the admins is racism. Can’t have a meaningful discussion there, wrongthink comments get nuked.
I suspect you’ll get plastered with some label and put in timeout if you attempt to pierce their bubble at all.
yeah. i reckon so. anarchist socialist here too.
the original burden of truth rests with those making claims… there was never any evidence that ukraine had a nazi problem, so why should we or they have to prove a negative before the original claimants provide any evidence at all?
“just asking questions” isn’t “just” it’s also repeating an idea, which absolutely is helping that idea remain and spread… by “just asking questions” that have been asked for years and years and years with no evidence to support the questions, it becomes entirely propaganda
see also: the bullshit asymmetry principle
i wanted evidence the nazi prop was false. my original question had “that patch is nazi” as an idea to prove was false. sheesh. read the whole idea.
and my point was related to the bullshit principal- there MUST be a cohort of links debunking the claims.
Thanks for confirming that you do indeed think of any instance not toeing the Triads preferred narratives as “Nazi Instances”
There’s absolutely Nazis serving in Ukraine, it’s just that the Azov leadership has been subsumed by the Ukrainian military rather than their former role as more of a militia. I haven’t seen any reports of Ukrainian leaders being Nazis.
I might add that there’s plenty of Nazis in Russia as well, and they serve in the Russian army too. Shit, Wagner was named after Hitler’s favorite composer and Perogi’s second in command had the damn SS thunder bolts tatted on his neck. He died with the chef though, thankfully.
shit there are TONS of nazis in the US military and police forces, too. that’s just standard. wanting links that debunk the claims that the gov is formally nazi was my goal. i miss apps like pocket for sharing links by category.
Because Western media just suddenly changed the narrative.
I have no idea if Wagner was a Nazi, but I do like Flight of the Valkeries. The fylflot was used by many people and still is, not as a symbol of hate, the runes are still in use as an alphabet and magical symbols by neopagan asatru…and that’s not my point.
It’d be pretty weird for Wagner to be a Nazi considering he died in 1883…
The attitude is the attitude. What word would you suggest?
Wagner is only relevant insofar as Hitler was a fan, and then that his name was selected for the Russian PMC.
Normally I’d say that could just be a coincidence, but when one of the founding members also happens to have the SS bolts tatted on him, I think it’s safe to say they’re an organization comprised of fascists.
The fylfot is not the SS rune. If Ukraine is a Nazi State, it’s a Nazi State invaded by another Nazi State.
Most of those 2014–2021 links are still live. Here are some.
where? ml?
Yes, sources like NYT, until they just … didn’t.
do you think archive would have it?
