Patriotism is pride in your country.
Nationalism is not knowing the difference between your government and your mommy.
The only good fascist is a dead fascist
Nationalism is only good when people are fighting colonialism, e.g. palestine or british era India.
“Nationalism is the best defense against invasion” is something fascists and rebellions against empires agree on.
Strange semi related old person story – back in highschool, one of our teachers had the class write essays on whether nationalism was good or bad. We were then given an option to either present our papers, or do a debate exercise with a kind of round robin pro or con. So you’d partner with 1 other person, debate if it was good or bad, then groups of 4 doing the same, until it was the whole class. In my paper and in my discussions, I had used a similar approach as this comic – basically just establishing what nationalism was vs patriotism, and drawing nazi’s in as an example too. No one in those discussions contested that Nazi’s were nationalists – but they still argued in favour of it.
By the end, I was the only person who thought nationalism was overall ‘bad’. The tide had turned in the groups of 8 stage. Because a hot girl had declared her support for nationalism. That’s all it took for people to like/excuse nazis, even back in the early 2000s. An excuse.
#JustEvolvedChimpanzeeThings
Both are shit. It seems like american culture in general is just lesser-evilism.
Existed just 4 years
Lost a war againt the USA
Prouldy waved 150 years later
But muh heritage…
And the brainwashing goes on and on…
The word “Republican” actually comes from a decolonial form of Nationalist movement, and they are always the Left party. Elsewhere in the world, “Republican” still means something actually useful for human goddamn dignity. Since nobody sold out the premise.
You gonna tell an Irish Nationalist that they can’t celebrate or defend their people even as “Unionist” Pogroms ravage Catholic parts of Northern Ireland?
You gonna tell an Indigenous Nationalist that their people can’t have the land granted to them by treaties or stand for their people’s sovereign water supply?
These illiterate, domesticated-ass liberals still think “nation = country = state”, like this is 2nd grade. The closest they get to reading is a twitter post, my essaying protects me from their eyes. And they want to talk about what Nationalism is?
Meanwhile Patriotism? Is bipartisan. And it is Simping for a State even as it commits a Genocide. Fuck all of that, and fuck your state. May Trump’s incompetence burn the US’s ability to inflict violence upon the rest of the world.
he word “Republican” actually comes from a decolonial form of Nationalist movement, and they are always the Left party. Elsewhere in the world, “Republican” still means something actually useful for human goddamn dignity. Since nobody sold out the premise.
It has nothing to do with that at all. They are called Republicans for historical reasons, but the name has long since lost all relevance to any specific policies, it is just a name for a
sportspolitical team. Other political parties in other places are called Republicans for other localised reasons.Republic stems from the Roman res publica, but in modern political science it just means a state where the office of head of state isn’t hereditary, ie. basically not a monarchy. This was a key factor in the 18th century, since most European (and globally as well) states were monarchies, so being a republic did mean a drastic change in political system compared to the norm. Not so much anymore, since most states in the world are republics, but they have very drastically different political systems, some are dictatorships others democracies.
Yeah, thanks for the correction. Modern Republicanism has a nice Wikipedia page that was worth a perusal.
The former British Colonies tend to use the word “Republican” in a specifically Anti-British-Monarchy way as that Nation sought independence. This does not apply to the US party.
Beginning as Socialist Parties is also a notable trend, though not entirely universal among this category. In this, the US party fits the trend well - but has abandoned that principle. Now they want a damn king too. Its disgusting.
The word “republic” comes from res publica. Public thing.
Indeed, the meaning has been fully distorted, like anything else in the US, and sold to people with no moral, voted by people with no moral.
If your whole identity is based on the fact you where born at some location on this planet, you really need some self reflection and deprogramming
I was within these borders while I crawled out of a vagina. it’s one of my greatest achievements and I’ll base my personality on that
This is bullshit.
Even if the technical definition of “patriotism” is all of these good things, it doesn’t matter because everyone thinks it means all of those bad things.
Yeah, people try to push this patrotism = good, nationalism = bad thing, but it is meaningless, because patriotism has long since become what Reinhart Koselleck would call a “Grundbegriffe”, basically a universal term which everybody has accepted is good, but which everybody interprets and uses in a variety of different (and clashing) interpretations. It is a term you use to invoke that you are on the right side, regardless of what side you are on, because it just means “good”.
Additionally, overt patriotism is usually nationalism.
Looking at this meme in the first panel, pride in who you are eventually becomes pride in who you aren’t if you feel it strongly enough.
Both are tribalism of different levels of intensity. Our brains are predisposed for us-them mentality, some stronger than others, some can leave it behind others never will. It’s also the most exploitable feeling in the history of our species, with fear may be the close contender.
Obviously a government embracing tribalism leads to horrid shit (everyone without an armband knows it) BUT ignoring it completely allows something else snake its way into that void. If you’re lucky its something vegetarian like football hooliganism, if you-re not – pan-nationalism, religious zealotry, whatever the 4chan incel shit is, people who can’t or won’t leave tribal mentality will find a dirt to roll in.
IMHO it is worth considering implementing a civic religion a-la french republicanism. Yes it can be a gateway to nationalism, but it also lets tribal minded people wave their flags and “guard the civic values” or whatever while the rest of us continue our lives in peace. As a bonus it improves civic participation and if you’re attacked – well there’s already something for you to rally around.
Patriotism is great because patriotism is about loving what a country stands for.
America no longer stands for freedom and justice for all. But anyone who loved those ideas before can still stand for them now.
So if I read your comment correctly, everybody MAGA person is a real US partiot because your country stands for a corrupt, racist and predatory kleptocracy now. They sure love that.
False. Patriotism is simping for a state even if it hurts you.
That’s how it starts, but it ends in the same hell. Once you decide your country stands for something, you inevitably stop seeing how it has failed at doing that thing for centuries.
For example, consider freedom and equality. The US had widespread slavery until the late 1800s, and even now the prison industrial slavery complex provides 100% slave labor, and most of the slaves are minorities. So when people talk about freedom and equality as a U.S. value, when they talk about the melting point, they have to pretend the slaves don’t exist.
Another way of looking at it is, “You might say your country stands for this ideal, but when we find massive examples of it failing, then you’re arguing with reality. You might wish your country stood for it, but it doesn’t, at least not now. Quit lying to yourself.”
That’s how it starts, but it ends in the same hell. Once you decide your country stands for something, you inevitably stop seeing how it has failed at doing that thing for centuries.
This is a non-sequitur. There’s nothing stopping someone from seeing what a country stands for and how it has failed to live up to those ideals. People can in fact walk and talk.
…So when people talk about freedom and equality as a U.S. value, when they talk about the melting point, they have to pretend the slaves don’t exist.
No one has to ignore our history or pretend the prison industrial complex doesn’t exist to understand that we stood for equality. In fact, it’s the other way around. It’s the people who ignore and even rewrite our history who fail to understand America is a melting pot.
Another way of looking at it is, “You might say your country stands for this ideal, but when we find massive examples of it failing, then you’re arguing with reality. You might wish your country stood for it, but it doesn’t, at least not now. Quit lying to yourself.”
Except there are massive examples of it succeeding. The US ended slavery and gave voting rights to women. So it is your argument arguing with reality.
When we lose sight of the fact our country stood for something we end up in a nationalist christo-fascist dictatorship. Championing freedom and justice for all is how we stave off the division employed by fascists.
Pretending the US didn’t stand for anything is an agreement with the fascists. They believe America has always been a white christian nation state and now it is one. Your argument is agreeing with their lie. The only way to defeat the fascists is to believe in the truth.
Patriotism is loving your country and wanting it to prosper. Nationalism is believing your country is superior to other countries and seeing all others as adversaries.
It’s the difference between working on self-improvement because you care about yourself vs. wanting to take things from others and being paranoid about them taking from you.
That’s a nice idea, and if you can maintain that distinction good for you, but the inevitable widespread consequence of loving one’s country more is that one loves other countries less. And that leads to xenophobia, which in turn leads to racism.
Nobody should be patriotic with the genocidal settler colony that is the USA.
fuck either of them.
no loyalty to any state.
