Incoherent take. The right is a tool the billionaires use to take shit away from the rest of us.
You’re right and you’re wrong. The ‘right’ is a made up label for class traitors who have been tricked into supporting billionaires. It’s incredibly useful for the billionaires because they get the support and it divides the rest of us and we put our energy into the fake boogeyman instead of focusing our efforts on them.
The right are the lackeys of the owning class and will fight the left regardless of the extent to which the left limits the scope of its engagement.
But bringing people over from the right is important and attacking them is counterproductive.
Not an excuse for mystification.
Also I’m pretty sure most right wing people consider themselves “moderate” or “independent” anyway so it’s not like they’ll feel attacked if we correctly blame the right for its crimes
Well, when they stop attacking us for believing in human rights, maybe we can have a dialogue.
Exactly, the issues we are diametrically opposed on cannot afford compromise. You can’t compromise on whether or not trans people deserve to exist. You can’t compromise on whether all school children deserve to eat. You can’t compromise on the opposition of fascism, racism, and bigotry. These people can get on the right side of morality or they can get fucked and I’ll tell every one of them to their face now that the other shoe is dropping on it. They have been offered the open hand of reason and discussion since at least 2015. They spat in our face for a decade. Now they get the fist.
So to start a dialogue, ppl must agree with your premise that human rights exist? Or should we have a dialogue where you prove human rights exist?
The conversation has to broach:
- Medical standards groups have our interests at heart even if medical companies do not
- trans people exist and have a right to live how they like.
- Children have a right to some self-determination, including figuring out their sexual preference and gender identity.
- All people deserve affordable health care and affordable housing, regardless of their race, religion, or background.
- Criminals deserve to be treated as human beings. Jails directly stand in opposition to that.
- there’s likely more that I can’t think of.
These ‘dialogues’ are not about things the left can morally budge on, and they’re insanely exhausting, especially when your opponent isn’t arguing in good faith. No one is obligated to go through that social stress, and frankly it’s probably easier for most to just physically fight right-wing idiots.
Medical standards groups have our interests at heart even if medical companies do not
Why would they have our interests at heart?
trans people exist
Obviously
and have a right to live how they like
Depends on what they like.
Children have a right to some self-determination
Nah, they don’t
All people deserve affordable health care and affordable housing, regardless of their race, religion, or background
Why? What did they do to deserve this? And why do we ignore religion/race/background? IMO there are no “all people”. Shinto japanese and Arab Muslim are two ontologically different objects like a rock and a stick. We have no reasons to treat them equally.
Criminals deserve to be treated as human beings. Jails directly stand in opposition to that
How are human beings treated? What is your solution? Abolish jails?
I honestly don’t understand what you’re saying. Could you explain better?
Do the billionaires not use the left to their benefit?
No, they use the culture war to divide and confuse people. Not because they want minorities to be respected, but to direct hate to gay and trans people, rather than them.
Yup. Rainbow capitalism. Whatever way to pit us against each other.
Rainbow capitalism is still capitalism. What the fuck does that have to do with the left???
The left isn’t the issue, I’m saying the left has also been used as pawns. We are not beyond manipulation and we have absolutely been pitted against each other. This is a huge reason for all the infighting on the left.
rainbow capitalism is mostly marketing towards polite liberalism. Homophobia/transphobia is their attempt to pit people against each other. Just like racism, it is not that these things didn’t exist before capitalism, but the exacerbation and use of it to divide the working class is what capitalists and reactionaries use.
The left is intrinsically opposed to the existence of billionaires as a matter of principle, so generally speaking, no.
How the fuck did all these dipshit enlightened centrists find their way onto lemmy???
How the fuck did all these dipshit enlightened centrists find their way onto lemmy???
That’s very respectful of you
Left is a tool of billionaires
We aren’t talking about massive tax breaks. That’s what’s insane.
Currently SS is capped at ~$180k dollars @ ~5%. That means if you earn $180k, you pay 9k in SS tax. If you earn $2 billion you pay 9k in taxes.
These greedy leeches are destroying one of the only semi-decent systems all next to no money from them personally.
The actual tax increase from trump’s expiring tax cuts is also something like 4%. Meaning these billionaires are doing all this work to save an extra $0.04 on every dollar of income.
They keep talking about the dangers and problems with debt, yet the blindingly obvious solution is a moderate increase in taxes. But instead of even broaching that subject, they are trying to also give themselves a tax cut while destroying social programs.
It’s robbery, plain and simple.
Meaning these billionaires are doing all this work to save an extra $0.04 on every dollar of income.
$0.04 for every dollar of income doesn’t sound like much until you’re talking about a billion dollars, in which case it’s $40 million.
That’s a whole extra yacht!
Why did they photoshop the miserable Mitt Romney dinner picture
because that, without context, might make someone feel sympathy for one of these ghouls.
But surely there are enough pictures out there of those ghouls together that you don’t need to create fake ones. There’s enough misinformation on the internet as it is.
libs don’t give a shit about truth. they literally can’t understand the idea. telling a liberal the truth is like reading poetry to your dog. it’s a sweet romantic idea, and maybe it makes you a good person, but only the tone actually matters.
lemmy has convinced me that neither conservatives nor communists know what a liberal is.
“Liberal” means different things in Europe vs America, and that confusion has been specifically exploited by propagandists as well, just making things worse.
I myself am a stupid american. I cannot say that I’ve read any great works of philosophy that discuss the espoused ideals of political movements.
What I have read are dictionary definitions. I have observed how people behave, what people think these words mean, and how almost everyone who gives themselves a label is either a liar or just wrong. Obviously, this is about the american versions of the words.
Liberals: “everything sucks, but it could suck less if we put in a tiny amount of effort to fix things. You may be mildly inconvenienced by these efforts.”
Conservatives: “everything sucks and it’s the libs’ fault! They changed things and now everything sucks! Fuck {insert racial slur here}!”
Communists: “everything sucks and it’s the libs’ fault! They’re just as fascist as the conservatives because capitalism!”
Republicans: “We’re conservatives!” (they’re actually fascists)
Democrats: “We’re liberals!” (some of them are, but most of them are conservatives. Also spineless failures, but that part isn’t important to this conversation.)
Am I on to something here, or am I just stupid?
yeah, that seems to me how people use these words
nevertheless, “liberalism” used to have an actual definition. it meant somebody would would say “things are allowed unless they are forbidden”, which is contrary to the anti-liberal (sometimes identified as conservative) view that “things are forbidden unless they are allowed”, which means, liberals don’t bother with things that don’t matter.
now, if you’re a trans girl shitting in a public toilet, that doesn’t matter because it doesn’t really change anything. that is why liberalism says “ok, it shouldn’t be forbidden, so by default it’s allowed” while anti-liberalists claim “i don’t see why these people are doing this, therefore they are faking it (being trans) and also it should be a crime until proven innocent”.
fuck yeah, invisible, like the ring of power. that’s… that’s what this is, right?
Yeah in europe liberals are liberals, while in america liberals are liberals but it must not interfere with capitalist interests
i guess you’re wrong about that. what you’re referring to is the fallacy that all liberals are extremely short-sighted and can’t make reasonable decisions, which is why they’re constantly manipulated and that causes them to be liberal in the first place.
there are liberals who can see reason.
if they could see reason in 2025, they wouldn’t be liberals anymore, I don’t think. the only thing liberalism ever had going for it was a big tent that could at least get its distasteful monkey paw version of good things done, and now they don’t even want to do that.
ok i get your point. you were referring to “liberals” as a political party, i.e. the democrats. i was referring to liberal individuals, i.e. people who engage in the rights of liberty.
more an ideology that closely aligns with the political party; there’s a certain kind of brain rot.
Oh my, his anguished face. This is a work of art.
That is exactly why its Right vs Left
What do you think “the left” is??
I’d love to see a poll of how people in the USA would answer that question.
Leftism is just a fat woman with pink hair yelling at me for no reason.
I’m not a Leftist, I’m a Pan-sexual Afro-Future Longtermist Egalitarian Social Radical Centrist With Kropotkin Characteristics. I believe in a single worker owned commune unfettered by the cloistered norms of a 50s era revanchist white colonialist culture. But also I reserve the right to think white women with pink hair are shrill and want nothing to do with them. That’s why I voted for Trump.
Messaging aside, be aware that this photo is edited, Musk wasn’t originally in it.
Wasn’t it Ted Cruz originally?
EDIT: ah it was Mitt Romney.
The only war is a class war.
The only tragedy is our lives.
I’m of the opinion that the Cold War never ended. Instead, it became like Syphilis and low-key kept its head down for years before coming back with a vengeance.
What we need to do is fight back and force-educate our simpleton brethren that right now are victims of propaganda. This might be a good time now that there are those who are having their faces eaten by leopards.
Sure it’s deserved; it’s kinda funny; and fuck them for backing bone fide traitors; but they are still Americans, and at some level they deserve pity and empathy for their mistakes.
And if we take out of a few billionaires along the way, then all the better everyone is for it.
Give ‘em Hell!
I refuse to believe that Elon Musk is human
No war but class war!
Medicare can’t help a guillotine
It kind of is Right vs Left, tho, because Billionaires Welfare and Anti-Tax-the-Rich is a core policy stance on the Right.
As I live alone and pay $500 a month just to be able to see a doctor, I am more and more enraged yet disillusioned the older I get. This is not living—this is fascistic technofeudalism.
Culture war manufactured, class war real.
Class reductionism is a reactionary and deeply flawed analysis. The abolition of the class system alone will not bring with it the abolition of all other injustices if if no attention is given to those.
This sort of post really brings out all the concavebrained centrists and red-brown alliance types who somehow think leftists and fascists aren’t axiomatically opposed to each other, as well as the whining brocialists who are happy to oppose the hierarchies that oppress them but will throw a shitfit if anybody points out any societal problems to which they could still be contributing.
the fucking left will never understand the need for fighting back in the class war. pointless to keep trying. they just don’t understand labor issues.
This is photoshopped… the picture was with mitt Romney and trump with his shiteating grin… why the edit?
