• MystikIncarnate@lemmy.caEnglish
    13·
    21 hours ago

    Well, I’m sure a human domicile would be a bit more robust than “alligator Alcatraz” so instead of 8 days, it might take more like… 8 weeks? To build something comparable for the homeless?

    Depending on how complex each housing unit is (bathrooms/kitchens/whatever) possibly more or less. Idk.

    But knowing that the world runs on capitalist dollars, there’s no profit in it. They can’t pay rent, they don’t have any money, and they would actively cost you money, either in property tax, water, power, and/or food… Not to mention any replacement costs for any fixtures or furniture that’s damaged/stolen.

    Not saying the unhoused are thieves, but a nontrivial number of them are desperate, and desperate people do things that they otherwise wouldn’t consider doing.

    In any case, the solution to the homeless “problem” (being that people are homeless at all) is not just housing, but also community services to get any drug users into their respective rehabilitation programs, and anyone willing and able to work, into job placements… Mental health services…

    All of these things cost money and don’t yield any profits, so I understand why they’re not done. That doesn’t mean I’m ok with it not being done, it’s a shame that we’ve left a portion of the population to fend for themselves on the streets and we almost universally dehumanize them as less than a person because they’re homeless. They’re people. We should take care of them because they’re people.

    No child left behind, but anyone post highschool that’s living on the streets, fuck them… I guess.

  • e$tGyr#J2pqM8v@feddit.nlEnglish
    25·
    1 day ago

    ‘The land of the free’ has one of the highest incarciration rates world wide (source). It must be exceptionally safe around there, no?

  • hansolo@lemmy.todayEnglish
    6·
    1 day ago

    The absurd irony of all these “Good Christians” testing the limits of their own religion’s capacity to incarcerate hypocrites, liars, and golden idol worshipers in a hell they would certainly end up in after they die.

  • LustyArgonian@lemmy.worldEnglish
    34·
    1 day ago

    Not just for the homeless, people in North Carolina are literally STILL FINDING BODIES, living in tents and cars, and can’t swim in any river or lake due to run off pollution

    This just shows the government is fine killing us via exposure to the elements

    • Nangijala@feddit.dkEnglish
      26·
      1 day ago

      Your food too. The more I learn about American food production the happier I am that I have never set foot in the states. Way before all this crazy shit started happening, I already had many issues with the idea of visiting the country and one of the main ones was that I really didn’t want to eat any of the food or drinking any of the water over there. They are literally poisoning you guys your whole lives.

      • LustyArgonian@lemmy.worldEnglish
        9·
        1 day ago

        Glyphosate, DDT, lead, mercury are huge issues in the US. Imo mercury is the biggest issue with what is happening in NC because that’s all old gold mining territory and back in the 1800s they used mercury extensively to extract gold (severely poisoning the water supply and imo to this day it impacts us). But there’s ofc lead in buckshot, and all the houses and cars that washed away had tons of different materials, oil, gas, MDF, etc etc

        Corporations wont let us (via lobbying) have Medicare for All - because that would detect cancer (and toxins) and allow us to class action sue companies for them. Can’t sue if it was never detected. Thats why they find carcinogens and lead in kids’ products so much - their products dont have more lead in them, but kids all can be on Medicaid and that catches it. Flint, MI, water poisoning was detected by a kid on Medicaid.

        They don’t want us to all have healthcare because that is public science and it will absolutely detect what theyve been lying and poisoning us with. It would probably destroy all the big companies like Nestle, Johnson&Johnson, Colgate, etc…

        Yeah, don’t blame you for not coming here.

  • jumperalex@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2391·
    2 days ago

    “The director tells me it could have been done in 72 hours if we were allowed to make it even more inhumane / unsafe”

    Fixed that for you.

    • GraniteM@lemmy.worldEnglish
      60·
      2 days ago

      Don’t forget to make the working conditions inhumane and unsafe for the workers building the place! That could probably shave off a few hours, too!

  • bcgm3@lemmy.worldEnglish
    54·
    2 days ago

    “Built a 3000 bed federal prison in eight days” almost sounds like they finally actually did something, until you realize:

    • The compound is located at the site of the Dade-Collier Training and Transition Airport, so there was already infrastructure
    • The area for detainees is a tent
    • Inside the tent is bunk beds, portapotties and a chain link fence

    But yeah, I also would have preferred our government take care of the unhoused (or just done nothing at all) instead of… this.

  • WoodScientist@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    681·
    2 days ago

    Daily reminder to all ICE agents. By signing up for ICE, you have signed yourself up for a lifetime of fear and criminal liability. There are Nazi concentration camp guards that were tried for their crimes in their 90s. There is no statute of limitations on crimes against humanity. Your names are recorded; your deeds are known. And you will face justice for your crimes.

    I want every Democratic politician to be repeating this every chance they get, a modern day “Carthage must be destroyed.” My greatest fear is that when this is done, and Democrats are eventually back in power, that they will fall back on the same suicidal tendencies that got us here in the first place. Obama came into power on the back of the criminal Bush administration, and his first act of office was to declare “it’s time to move on,” and to announce that no members of the prior regime would be prosecuted. And Biden did the same after the first Trump term. We need to be willing to hold people accountable. And we need to be talking about this now. We need to fully embrace the idea of prosecuting ICE agents for their crimes against humanity. We cannot declare it’s time to move on and to let them get away with what they have done.

    And no, “I’m just following orders” is not an excuse. Anyone who says that deserves to hang.

    • buddascrayon@lemmy.worldEnglish
      291·
      2 days ago

      This needs to be (if it isn’t already) a copypasta that finds its way onto every post and comment board concerning ICE and the current administration’s barbarous acts towards people who’s only crime was not being a white person who was born here.

      • WoodScientist@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        13·
        2 days ago

        I suppose I should add to this, “and do not count on a blanket pardon saving you. Crimes against humanity are violations of international law that cannot be pardoned.”

    • slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.orgEnglish
      2·
      1 day ago

      Yeah but in a country dumb enough to elect Donald Trump twice? And before that Joe Biden? Obama? Bush? TWICE. BOTH BUSHES. Maybe a bit harsh to throw Obama in there, because the other options were bleak too.

      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        1·
        21 hours ago

        the nuremberg trials were a joke. only 22 people were tried and it was more of a political show to show to their own soldiers who fought hard that they were doing something about the nazis, while actually they abducted a lot of the scientists and made them work for themselves.

        i wish there had been actually meaningful trials. but i guess the ruling class is never gonna punish itself.

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 day ago

      Yes, but that needs that we actually win, and not just be in the period of the slow death of the “free world” and the “rules based world order”, instead of heading towards a dark age of globalized neofascism and neocoloinalism.

  • Wilco@lemmy.zipEnglish
    4·
    24 hours ago

    There is no profit in sheltering the homeless. Those ICE camps are all the rage amongst investors … particularly private equity firms. Private equity firms will do literal evil to make a few dollars.

  • NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.worldEnglish
    36·
    2 days ago

    Haven’t seen it pointed out, yet, but it should be noted that a chain link fence and some tents are structures that have been completely toppled by far less than 3000 people many, MANY times. These are very fragile things they are building.

    On an unrelated note, bolt cutters are not expensive and neither are ground bloomers, tape, and plyers.

    • MrShankles@reddthat.comEnglish
      13·
      1 day ago

      It’s the surrounding Everglades that becomes the problem. But idk, I don’t think I’d give a fuck vs staying there and dying from West Nile, flooding, heat stroke, hurricane, atrocities, etc… and with 3000 people, you have a much better chance

  • aesthelete@lemmy.worldEnglish
    73·
    2 days ago

    It’s not that difficult to build a concentration camp with shitty cots, inadequate facilities, and hazardousness as a feature built in on nearly unlivable land in the Everglades.

    It likely is slightly more difficult to build housing for homeless people unless you’re trying to build death trap, concentration camp housing for them as well.

    • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.worldEnglish
      72·
      2 days ago

      Yeah, I get the point they’re trying to make, but this is a pretty silly comparison. It’s like “oh, so you can eat a 6” sub but not an 18" pizza? Pff, fake hunger".

    • original_charles@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      2 days ago

      unless you’re trying to build death trap, concentration camp housing for them as well.

      Just you wait, I’m sure that’s in the works too.

  • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    632·
    2 days ago

    Provide unlivable caging, you mean. Homeless people don’t deserve to be “housed” in something like this any more than undocumented immigrants do. The reason homeless housing takes money and time is that it’s supposed to be humane, and put people where they can interact with the resources of the community. Alligators aren’t NIMBYs, and the administration ignored environmentalist organizations that protested on their behalf.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.worldEnglish
      252·
      2 days ago

      Yes and no. A huge chunk of ex-Soviet people still live in Khruschev-era serial housing.

      That’d be buildings that have cracks, leaks and draughts all over them, you can hear your neighbors fucking, and there are no elevators.

      Yet when those were being built, most of the population was living in barracks (not the military kind, but flimsy wooden boxes with no conveniences, crammed together, something like construction workers for the duration of one project) or in communal apartments (imperial-era normal or even luxury apartments split into rooms, rooms split with additional walls into smaller rooms, a family crammed into each such room, and only one bathroom and kitchen and toilet for all of them in one communal apartment) , and this show of humanity and a few others (like releasing thousands of political prisoners) form together the particular spirit of 60s and the Thaw in the USSR, where, paradoxically, Soviet people started feeling that there might really be some bright future ahead. Late 40s and 50s after the war were so dark that they are almost absent from popular memory. It’s not a coincidence that Soviet science fiction (a thing that between 20s and 50s became almost dead) had a rebirth.

      The housing program was one of the main reasons for this optimism.

      So, my point is - I don’t think homeless people would complain about getting bad housing over no housing. And I don’t think that prison is that much worse than Khruschev-era houses, modern materials and all that.

      • Death_Equity@lemmy.worldEnglish
        18·
        2 days ago

        I don’t disagree with you, but I feel a communal housing with lots of homeless people in close proximity would be deleterious to homeless rehabilitation as the worst examples would negatively effect the best examples in the same way that prison turns a normal person into a broken person that can manage existing outside of that system.

        You couldn’t even separate the degrees of maladaptions and have productive rehabilitation because there would a point at which you create a oroboros class that would never be capable of rehabilitation in proximity to similar cases that would fester and grow until you need a larger capacity that never really makes progress.

        The same sort of thing happens on the streets now. The influence of the worse cases drag down others until you have a common population of bad cases that are decivilized until rehabilitation is almost impossible.

        A more separate and isolated rehabilitation program would allow for a greater ability for improvement in a vacuum devoid from the detrimental influence of worse or more of the same influence. Obviously that would be more costly and have greater logistical needs, but that is the cost of meaningful homeless rehabilitation.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.worldEnglish
          7·
          2 days ago

          Yeah, that’s to an extent what happened with Soviet microdistricts (so many examples from Soviet practice, guess it was some good after all). Except in a bit different way, but I’ll get to the part about creating a district populated with just homeless people not being a good idea.

          There was a bright idea of, for some degree of coziness and comfort, building serial housing organized into similar (they all look like one more or less) sections, having same spaces with grocery stores, laundries, same green places with trees, same everything, and on a bit larger scale even schools in the same locations.

          So - being a teenager or a young man in USSR you’d do well not to wander into your neighboring microdistrict after dark or even at day alone. Local hooligans would treat that as trespassing, rob you and possibly beat you up. That wouldn’t be even considered something wrong, your own mistake.

          They did achieve the set goal - in terms of green spaces and proximity of everything and nice feel those districts are fine, - but for the same reason of isolation and silence all areas developed this way had (and still have) problems with street crime.

          As to your specific concern - I think that if we want to do serial state-provided housing, then it shouldn’t be limited to homeless people.

          Probably some kind of categorization of applicants should be done, a few apartments in each building should be allocated to homeless (not in the same section of it, but equally spread), a few for veterans, a few to be sold to redeem some of the cost, a few for students, and so on. The proportions can be decided upon. So that the general composition of each house’s inhabitants were kinda average.

          This would naturally be contrary to the interest of realtors and developers and landlords, so I’d expect such a program to require overcoming a lot.

          • Death_Equity@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            Yeah, having a distribution of “classes” within a communal housing makes the most sense.

            The issue of having a maladapted homeless person within proximity of “normal” people is that they may negatively affect others in meaningful ways. So an intermediary step from the streets to communal housing is necessary to act as a rehabilitation point to filter out the homeless that would actively harm the peace, safety, and security of everyone else. Without that intermediary step, the community will step up and “handle” the situation in a less than desirable manner. “So you are saying the guy that we have had various complaints about multiple times a month just decided to jump off the roof and nobody saw anything?” That sort of dynamic has played out throughout human history.

            So a degree of isolation and counseling is necessary and the duration would be highly dependent on the individual’s needs.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              2 days ago

              So a degree of isolation and counseling is necessary and the duration would be highly dependent on the individual’s needs.

              I agree. In between and also for some time after being given that social housing.

              • Death_Equity@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                2 days ago

                Absolutely, you can’t just call them good and send them off into the population. A degree of continued support would be advisable even if they have transitioned into a “normal” state equal to the average person because homelessness has long-term psychological effects that can’t be allowed to smoulder.

  • AA5B@lemmy.worldEnglish
    18·
    2 days ago

    I don’t suppose anyone thought of humane conditions while building a concentration camp in a Florida swamp. Even prisoners deserve something to control the heat, the humidity, the mosquitoes, or were causing yet more needless deaths

    And yes, employees overseeing obviously inhumane conditions should absolutely face justice for those illnesses and deaths

    • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      12·
      1 day ago

      Even Especially prisoners deserve something to control the heat.

      part of the problem is that so many are OK with these concentration camps because they believe criminals deserve whatever happens to them in prison.

      if people stopped indulging that false dichotomy between criminal and upstanding citizen, we might not be seeing such a large-scale kidnapping.