Most of us are cool with ya’ll, but yeah, too many who aren’t, so please stay the fuck out until its safe.
Also to add, there is an unfortunate number of Liberals who are quickly walking back any support for trans folk.
Not only do these people fail as allies and as compassionate human beings, but they’re also very stupid if they don’t see that defending trans rights is the front line of the fight against fascism right now. They’re not going to stop at taking rights away from trans people.
They can’t see that attacks on trans rights are also attacks on cis rights. I think that’s part of the reason why Rep. Zoey Zephyr and Rep. SJ Howell were so effective at stopping a couple pieces of anti-trans legislation in Montana yesterday. They talked about the fact that the legislation would potentially effect cis people as well as the fact that it’d take “parental rights” away from parents. They also did it in a way that created a narrative which both cis and trans people can identify with, creating a common ground to further convince people that the legislation was wrong. And it was successful. They got a number of Republican lawmakers to switch sides, despite the fact that the GOP prides itself on being in lockstep. They even had a Republican lawmaker make a stand too, saying that the people introducing this legislation were basically just wasting everyone’s time.
People say, “trans rights are human rights” and they’re serious. We embody the extreme of gender non-conformity that cis people occasionally dabble in, and when you start taking away our rights, you start taking away cis rights too.
Can you give some links what these “pieces of anti-trans legislation” were going to do? Not familiar with that yet.
Here’s an article on the two bills that got voted out in Montana: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/powerful-speeches-from-trans-dems
Most of the anti-trans legislation is as bad or worse; Texas has a couple nutjobs trying to make being trans illegal as a whole.
Of course they’re stupid; they’re Americans.
defending trans rights is the front line of the fight against fascism right now
Yeah, it’s this kind of delusion why people aren’t loyal to you.
Nobody wants your fucking loyalty. They want you to wake the fuck up and get it through your skull that we’re all in this shithole together, and you need to start lending a hand instead of stomping on other’s backs to get yours. Because one day, you might need the rest of us to come save you too.
That’s not true. You people expect me to agree with you on everything or else I’m a nazi.
If I dared to suggest we prioritize reducing the disparity in wealth over fighting a culture war, you people immediately assume I’m an enemy.
You don’t just want loyalty, you crave it. You’re dependent on it. You get mad whenever you don’t get it and throw tantrums until you do or get rid of the person.
If I dared to suggest we prioritize reducing the disparity in wealth over fighting a culture war, you people immediately assume I’m an enemy.
No, because doing one means doing the other. Who do you think is waging the culture war in the first place?
Personally, as a trans person, I don’t want your loyalty. I don’t care about your loyalty. We don’t know one another at all so I don’t even know if you’re someone I’d actually want to hang around; and I’m not gonna ask for loyalty from a total stranger.
What I want is for you to act like a decent human being and understand that the culture war is part of a much larger war about wealth inequality; and that you’re going to struggle if you allow your allies to slowly get picked off by the ones waging the war in the first place. If that occurred then the best you could hope for would be a pyrrhic victory that leaves you asking, “we won, but at what cost?”
There you go doing it again. You’re conflating your agenda with another one to make it seem like people should, say, call you a woman if they want to reduce the disparity in wealth.
That’s a load of malarkey and proves my point even further. It’s sad how the ruling class is robbing us blind because people like you are trying to piggyback your agenda on problems that face the working class.
Also, you personally may not want loyalty but hopefully you can recognize that you are the outlier in that regard.
That’s not true. You people expect me to agree with you on everything or else I’m a nazi.
So what nuace is missing here? Or any topic.
Trans rights is simply human rights for trans people. It’s not a culture war issue; it’s a human rights issue.
Defending your fellow man isn’t culture war. You bought the propaganda.
If I dared to suggest we prioritize reducing the disparity in wealth over fighting a culture war
Are you incapable of breathing and chewing bubble gum at the same time? Why not both?
Because they like to use “we have bigger problems to worry about” as a way of shutting down people calling attention to problems.
prioritize
After BLM and Roe v Wade y’all expect people to all of sudden grow a spine for a ridiculously lower number of people?
I see everywhere that trans rights are the first to fall to fascism but that’s complete BS. They’re the last.
US progressives love to believe those lies, it gives them purpose. I’m sure the turnout next election (if there’s one) will be much higher if we keep talking about HRT instead of slavery happening in private prisons, or women dying while giving birth to their rape babies.
We call those shitty people where I come from.
Unfortunately it‘s not a struggle between left or right anymore but up and down instead. Especially in the US.
In what way are liberals walking back support for Trans? I’ve seen the comment from Gavin Newsom about athletics, but does that mean he has walked back all support? Or just in that one area?
Walking back support in one area is walking back support.
It ain’t that complex. As soon as concessions are made, the far right demands more because there must always be an enemy to crush completely for the in-group. Who will then pick a new enemy when it comes politically convenient.
So in your opinion it’s an all or nothing thing? Like, you can’t question one area without going full bigot?
No.
If you fall back in front of the far right they will take that ground and demand more, as they always have done, and as they always will do. It’s how they win, it’s how they are winning, on trans rights, on immigration, on racial supremacy. Do not give them an inch. It’s not “all or nothing” it’s “give the bigots nothing”.Ok, but what if you are not giving into demands, but stating your feelings that just happen to align, in that one area, with the right?
My point is that Trans issues have many different areas. Saying they’re wrong in one area does not mean you are abandoning trans people entirely and just as bad as the bigots that want harm done to them.
Just want to say, I don’t know all of what Newson has said, just read some articles that had 2 or 3 quotes. It’s hard to know what his overall opinions are, though.
The thing is you don’t align with the far right. At least I hope you don’t anyway. The far right either hate trans people, or they do not give a shit about them either way. They are using trans people as a political football to sow exactly this type of division. Yes, trans people in sport is an unresolved problem. No, I do not want the right wing to be the ones to resolve it. If you align superficially, you still don’t want to cede to them. Bear in mind “align” only guess as far as saying “we can agree about this one sentence”, not this whole issue
Godwin’s law is fucked these days so let’s just use the third Reich as an analogy. You may agree that Germany has a legitimate territorial claim on Alsace-Lorraine. Does that mean you should let the Nazis take it? No, you fight them and then resolve it when someone more reasonable is asking. The reasons why should be obvious, and so should the analogy. It’s not about whether the extremely superficial claim is “correct”, it’s about why they are saying it and what they plan to do if they get enough people to agree with them.
In this case, where the war is one of ideas, you’re not a bigot if you agree in a very superficial way, but it’s completely redundant to be talking about trans women in sport when trans people are being stripped off their rights and it looks like things are getting worse. A year ago we were hoping (again) for the first female president; long overdue. That’s not an issue anymore, as women are being erased from history.
I am not sure what you don’t understand about the statement that walking back support is, in fact, walking back support.
You’ve perfectly articulated my thoughts as well.
It’s honestly disappointing to see these sorts of expressions stated here on Lemmy. It was the shitty, uninformed, “I don’t care for the science or data”, reactionary right wing views that contributed to me leaving Reddit and here we are again.
I suppose continuing to dehumanise trans folk with the most important issue being a tiny number of trans people competing in a subset of activities, that are inherently unfair, is so much more important than avoiding demicide.
Got to placate the far right! They are really well known for being reasonable, not demanding more and having positions based wholly on logic without an ounce of hatred slipping through.
Sure, but your comment is implying it’s an all or nothing situation. Walking back is walking back and nothing else matters.
There’s are multitudes of trans issues, and questioning one does not mean you are questioning all of them.
If somebody thinks people born male shouldn’t be competing in non rec league sports against people born female, that doesn’t mean they should be treated the same as people that want to ban drag shows and ban accepting lgbt children and all the other blatant bigotry coming from the MAGA cult.
If you can’t accept the nuance in the conversations then there will be no conversation.
What conversation do you want exactly?
If you want to pretend there is nuance you will be fully aware that the evidence that supposedly supports banning trans athletes, which is an initial step of control used to further limit transgender people by e.g. preventing them for entering the country, are meta studies based on comparisons of cisgender men and cisgender women, right?
There isn’t a nuanced debate to be had and I’m sick of pretending that people like myself who just want to live our lives are a subject for debate.
So yes, worrying about tens out of hundreds of thousands of athletes when there isn’t clear evidence of an advantage is bigoted and not calling that out leads to situations where conservatives and the far right try to introduce bills like that which was recently struck down (thankfully) in Montana.
Now, question for you - why is it so important to you that a minority of people should have their basic humanity and ability to participate in society be questioned in the way that transgender people are? Why do you support that? Why do you consider that to be an okay thing to do, when the consequences of allowing it are so plain to see?
In many ways it is. The actual science on trans athletics supports policies like those sports agencies have typically used - allowing people to compete if they’ve been on certain hormonal treatments for a specific period of time. Cis athletes also have advantages and disadvantages, relative to each other, based on testosterone level. Trans women on HRT are well within that range of performance. In many sports, trans women are actually at a disadvantage to cis women, due to the fact that trans women tend to have lower testosterone levels than cis women.
In other words, the science is completely against sports bans. There is no logical reason to do them. The truly scientific solution is to consider sports on an individual basis, and let the sport figure out what advantage/disadvantage trans folks might have. Then, if that advantage/disadvantage is well within normal player ranges, then competing is fine. If not, if it’s an individual sport, maybe a handicap system. If it’s a group sport, well maybe rules about how many trans people can be on any one team. Etc. You start at a position of aiming for fairness. Then you only prevent people from competing if a clear advantage can be justified. In other words, the complete opposite of blanket sports bans.
With sports bans, you’re not meeting someone halfway on an issue of great scientific debate. You are simply caving to irrational bigotry. People think trans people are gross, so they want to hurt them. That’s really the root of this. And you can’t compromise with someone that isn’t actually trying to craft good public policy. Two people can compromise on tax rates or the generosity of government benefits. But how do you compromise with someone that just wants to hurt other people? Their desire to hurt others isn’t going to end. They’ll just want more. Compromising with bigots only emboldens them.
Also for god fucking sake it’s fucking evil to harass individual athletes who are abiding by those rules and participating in a sport they love. The fact that I scroll past virulent hatefests against Lia Thomas on Facebook, or that Imane Khalif’s personal medical history is apparently everyone’s personal business is gross and evil.
Furthermore, dear German folx & allies, can we come stay awhile, please?
Ze Nazis are here now, oder. 🥹
They’re crawling back out of their holes here again too
But generally I’d say most people don’t care
I genuinely used to wonder as a kid how the Nazis ever got to power. How people could just stand by and let people like that take power? How could they just allow all the horrid shit?
I don’t wonder anymore.
There are so many layers to this stuff that it would blow this comment way out of proportion. I’d love to tell you about this but it would be so much to write.
I got curious about it several decades ago have had some time to ponder and read.
https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/one-crucial-word/
Amathia. It is often translated as “ignorance,” as in the following two famous quotes from Socrates:
“Wisdom alone, is the good for man, ignorance the only evil” (Euthydemus 281d)
“There is, he said, only one good, that is, knowledge, and only one evil, that is, ignorance” (in Diogenes Laertius, II.31)
That’s the opening lines of the article. It’s only 2-3 page, a couples of minutes read. I really do strongly suggest it.
Hi I’m trans and living in the US right now, in Seattle one of the best places to be trans in the US. Don’t come here if you’re trans. Don’t travel to anywhere in the US, not Seattle, not anywhere. If for no other reason than to stop giving tourism money to us but if you’re trans then yeah it’s getting spicy.
All my trans friends who have had to travel are reporting increased pat downs, getting questioned by TSA, and bags being opened regardless of their documents. If you get clocked you may be delayed or searched.
For any trans people looking to get out of the country be careful. So fary best idea is to get to a state with enhanced IDs, use that to hop the border to Canada by land without having to physically hand your passport to a US agent, then fly out from there.
Stay safe everyone
For any trans people looking to get out of the country be careful. So far my best idea is to get to a state with enhanced IDs, use that to hop the border to Canada by land without having to physically hand your passport to a US agent, then fly out from there.
Or stay in Canada if you can swing it, and if we don’t elect our own Trump-wannabe in our upcoming election
I really really hope the Cons keep shooting themselves in the foot, for the sake of everyone
Just don’t travel to the US at all
Yeah, as much as I’d love to see some of the national parks, I’ll never travel there unless their entry procedures and government change fundamentally. Plenty of other countries to visit.
As an American one of the prettiest places I have ever been is Banff, in Canada.
Come to Canada instead. We got really nice parks too. And they tend to be less Disneyfied.
Boy, I would read that as a warning for other people as well. Who the hell wants to travel to a place where people are at risk just for being people? Tourism dies with autocracies. Let America become the dull homogeneous wasteland it wants without throwing them any tourism dollars.
Start accepting American LGBT refugees then.
Boy never in my life I would have thought about political refugees coming from the US to Germany.
Yesterday someone said to me that we’re living in a South Park episode that became reality… I think he’s right…
Even South Park isn’t this wacky. They had to scrap and remake an episode after the 2016 election because it was completely baffling to them that Trump won.
You do not want to be a refugee here trust me
“Glory to Aristotska! Papers, please.”
DETAIN!
Someone Jumps Over The Wall
opens drawer
💥🔫
Based Germany
Something Something passing privilege.
But seriously don’t come here, TSA is filled with bootlickers and bystanders. And harassing and detaining foreigners is going to give them good boy points.
They are already detaining Germans without them being transgender whatsoever:
deleted by creator
Just not being white and travelling to the US is now more of a risk. Risk of getting harassed and detained by ICE. Or being harassed by people pretending to be ICE. Tourism is going to take a hit.
Even cis Germans probably should not go, given recent events.
