Lots and lots of people, actually. Many identify with the tough-talkin’ images being projected, believing it’s just what the world needs and that the magic sorting hat will assign them to the privileged class when the dust settles.
Pretty much it. They have been trained by decades of “if it bleeds it leads” news, Fox news, and talk radio to be in perpetual fear and see themselves as being under attack. The internet has fueled this wildly. They see everyone as being out to take their way of life away, steal their money (taxes), needing guns against the mobs waiting outside of their door, etc. On top of that is an apocalyptic mindset that used to be just evangelical Christian but now has become a secular mentality of “shake society hard enough and we’ll magically come out on top”. It is the lottery mentality of success, no effort, no self improvement just have it fall into your lap.
Meanwhile the wealthy continue to push for the degradation of society as long as it serves them in their lifetimes. Cut corp taxes to nothing, cut capital gains taxes, move from income taxes to sales taxes, buy struggling businesses, fire everyone, don’t pay debts, take out loans against it then cash in on selling the pieces. Destroy the environment because only future generations will pay for that. Corp and capital gains tax cuts and tariffs put more and more of the burden on the lower and middle classes. Get rid of education oversight, medical research, financial watchdogs, etc, none of those matter to the wealthy who will always have access to private schools, concierge doctors, financial advisors, lawyers, etc. They just keep distracting the working class and rural voters with frivolous culture wars distractions while they pick your pockets.
The 'Mercans are not usually aware that there are other countries besides the two countries, Europe and Africa.
Half are aware, the other half is happy about how things are going. Apparently we have hundreds of millions of racist dumbfucks here.
There are plenty of racists who aren’t fascist. There are plenty or countries with racism problems that aren’t fascist. There are plenty of dumbfucks who aren’t fascist. There are plenty of illiterate countries that aren’t fascist. “Stupidity” (im being careful here - i dont think illiteracy = stupid) and racism predates fascism.
Youve reached the limit of the liberal ideological framework and have resorted to explaining fascism as some sort of cultural pathology. This is what happens when your idealist politics prioritizes individual psychology and moralistic explanations over historical and economic analysis.
It’s frustrating seeing liberals watch the fascist devolution in real-time, and just throw up their hands saying “well i guess americans are just stupid! QED!”. It conveniently absolves them for their complicity in facilitating fascism, and it spits in the face of victims of US policy, both foreign and abroad.
Well I voted against the Orange fascist. Should I go hold an anti Tesla sign at a dealership? What do you expect the response should be with the next presidential election four years away?
Honestly dog, this is exactly the right question. I get it. Shoutout to you for asking it. Truly.
From the liberal perspective, this is exactly how it goes. “I voted against fascism, yet fascism still festers. What gives?”
The liberal framework pushes the idea that electoralism is the be all end all form of political participation, but leftists refute this. Leftists say that you have a plethora of other tools at your disposal to express yourself politically: buy a gun, do mutual aid, join an organization, read theory, participate in local politics, etc…
If your question is earnest, I’d encourage you to read some Lenin.
The average person is not deeply aware of this stuff. All y’all don’t have any fucking clue what the average American is like.
Most people are just trying to get through the day. They want to pay their bills and make sure the kids are fed and Sally needs to get to dance class and Bobby has been having problems at school and now the boss wants to get that foundation poured tomorrow so you’re gonna have to stay late, but your wife can’t leave work early to pick up the kids so now you have to deal with that and oh, eggs cost double what they did a year ago and you haven’t gotten a real raise since 2021.
They don’t have time to spend on Lemmy, figure out how to use Linux, learn what a tariff is, or debate the difference between gender and sex, or read about what the Heritage Foudnation does. I do, but I’m not most people and the more y’all keep acting like those people aren’t like you people the more problems you’re gonna keep making for yourself.
Grow the fuck up
They don’t ever browse the internet?
They never watch tv?
And they never have conversations with somebody who has?I’d assume the average american has a rough idea of what’s going on. You’d have to try pretty hard to avoid it.
Of course people are going to prioritise their daily issues and the things that directly affect them, but don’t pretend that nobody ever gets spare time. There wouldn’t be multi-billion dollar media companies if that were the case.
It just seems like people prefer media consumption / escapism over education.
What internet? The one algorithmically controlled by the oligarchs?
What TV? The stations that were purchased years ago by our country’s oligarchs?
What conversations? When everyone around them is being fed the same misinformation, and they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy?
I would not assume the average American has any idea what is going on.
they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy
There’s the problem.
Are you suggesting that the algorithms for every website are pro-trump?
Algorithms mostly care about profit and user engagement.
Go check the front page of reddit and see how most political posts are about trump’s/america’s fuck ups.Sorry, the site that is expressly pro-Trump and has been removing comments critical of the current administration?
Beyond that, I wouldn’t even necessarily describe Reddit as a major player in the U.S. Most Americans are either part of META’s ecosystem or X, and both of those are absolutely pro-Trump.
You don’t need to bring Reddit energy to lemmy. You don’t need to end your post with “grow the fuck up”. No reason whatsoever why you can’t post and write a reply without resorting to anger or agression.
If they didn’t have kids because it was “the next step” in life they would have time.
It might be you who needs to grow up. This is a weird knee jerk reaction.
Non Americans should be able to ask a question about America without being told to “grow up”.
It’s not childish to wonder how much Americans understand about how fucked up their choice of leadership is. We’re not psychic.
Damn dude chill.
You can have a life and family and be on Lemmy or Reddit, use Linux, be a weeb or whatever they want.
Most people just choose a side and that’s that.
It’s a like a lazy mental state, I don’t blame them, life is hard and there is so much one person can focus on.
If Trump said that all Americans will become rich, then all Americans will become rich, it doesn’t matter the how or why.
I know people with wife and kids completly oblivious to politcs, but can talk about sports like some kind of experts, telling you all the tactics and player names. Some people just choose to ignore what is important because it’s easier.I’m not from the US - that’s why I’m asking. Thanks for the insights into the lives of US citizens. It’s even sadder than I thought. But rest assured: it’s not like this everywhere in the world. Not yet at least and the rest of the world just needs to see that your horrible government doesn’t force your way of life on everyone - because that’s what Trump and his criminal crew want.
Bullshit. It’s easier than ever to know what’s going on in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for not knowing how bad things are.
Not being able to do much of anything about it due to having to deal with day to day concerns, I get. But as an excuse for being ignorant? Absolutely not. That’s a deliberate choice.
I think you’re projecting the deliberate choice part. It think a lot of folks can get reasonably caught up in their own lives and not look into things too deep. It’s effort to overhaul your information intake. Lots of folks have very little effort left over after work, and Its is reasonable to assume nothing has convinced them that their news is bad.
I think its easier than ever to get the info, but that still doesn’t mean its easy enough that everyone and their mom automatically knows what they should be paying attention to.
Making these things about personal failings feels very unproductive. There is a lot to focus on in life. It seems better to try and make the subject approachable and comfortable.
Now? USA has been supporting a genocidal nuclear regime in palestine for decades. They’ve been threatening and attacking every state in the region. Total rogue.
Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I’ve seen two classes:
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Those in denial and ignorant in general (don’t really follow the news), who don’t believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
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Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like “oh so when the Democrats do it it’s okay, but now the Trump is doing it it’s wrong??? You fucking communist!”
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It’s the only explanation I have. These aren’t random people I don’t know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don’t see a way to help them that doesn’t involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it’s going to make me resent them, and I don’t want that.
I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who’d stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it’s “Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here’s how the election was stolen” (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn’t work. It always ends with 😡👉"Your information is wrong and you’re being brainwashed"👈😔 you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they’re just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false.
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There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Or more likely, you believe white lives to be more valuable, and you take offense now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
“Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?”
And
“Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!”
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the “good old days” of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
Liberals are just as much reactionaries as conservatives. They simply disagree on which status quo they’d like to return to and who is acceptable to exploit.
the other guy pretty clearly meant liberal in a social & political philosophy sense and not a “liberal v conservative” modern american political theater one. i won’t speak for ferrous but i would imagine that’s why you didn’t get a reply of sorts yet. it’s kind of surprising and unsettling the amount of upvotes your comments have relative to each other but then again it seems reading comprehension is a skill more and more left to a select few.
like, anyone from .ml probably means liberal in that sense but in the particular context of this comment he definitely did and i’m confused why you’re getting upvoted when your reply is nonsensical considering liberalism is not diametric to conservative ideology within most frameworks.
sorry not to be a chode but wishy washy symbols like the ambiguity of the word “liberal” in modern discourse is a large part of what has landed us here in the first place.
That’s why I wrote “…now definitely a rouge state”. Not that there was much of a question before but now it should be obvious even to US-citizens.
[…] now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
That’s nothing new, that’s happened before.
Then explain the shock coming from Europe.
deleted by creator
No, it hasn’t. The US is waging a proxy war that requires the EU to bear the consequences. They even destroyed one of your pipelines, and caused one of the worst environmental disasters in history right off the coast, and Europe didn’t make a peep about it.
We’ve been in a rogue state for a long time. Its been an oligarchy for a while, now you also have AIPAC in the mix.
American Exceptionalism, Baby!
it fucking poison. i moved to the us from abroad as a kid and spent my adolescence there. moving back to my home country, i quickly realized that i needed to give myself a serious attitude adjustment.
i don’t think many people from outside the us realize just how pervasive fox news is in america. it’s playing on every television in every bar and every airport and just about everywhere else that has a television. it’s non-stop negativity, non-stop arrogance, non-stop disinformation, non-stop convincing people that patriotism is fervent fealty. it’s gotten a bit stale lately to talk about fox, but holy crap their role can’t be overstated in the way things have become.
It’s just like Russia, only that the official main public TV channel is Fox News, and all the others are too.
Guess which US channel is the only one Russian TV ever cites in their propaganda against the democratic West ?
Exactly. Fox News.
Luckily I was only born in that shithole, my family emigrated 30 years ago, when I was a kid. Still, half of them are brainwashed and watch that crap all day. Kremlin TV. It’s all the same bullshit. Hate, cynicism, making fun of liberal values, playing the victim.
Truth is, USA and Russia are two hateful siblings who usually fought but actually are pretty much the same. Cold war was never truly about systems, it was about who is the top dog. Now they realized they can just work together and divide the cake.
I always hated Europe being so under US influence, but it seemed like the lesser evil because Europe also profited from it, cannot deny that.
But now there’s Russia on the right, and Russia on the left. And China can just relax and wait until the dust settles and collect the pieces.
I see a lot of people starting gardens or looking to getting chickens to be as self sufficient as they can. Many are holding off on large purchases to save in case “something happens”. People around me who were never interested in firearms and in fact were generally opposed to them are starting to arm themselves at a rapid pace.
Good luck with the gardens. I’ve never really been a fan of US gun laws, but now it all seems strangely sensible.
This is the literal, specific scenario 2A was intended to counter. We’ll have to see over the next few years if it works as intended.
People invoke 2A usually lie, and the reason to arm themselves is to kill dark skinned people they don’t like.
this was always the reason for 2a: empowering white settlers to “defend” their land (stolen from indigenous people at gunpoint) and property (African slaves held in captivity at gunpoint).
I’m not sure thats right. I think the 2A was written in order to enable the US to be able to organize militias to defend itself against foreign invasion as, at the time, the idea of the colonies supporting a standing army was impossible.
It’s both.
Your reply to osaerisxero was correct and made more sense before he ninja-edited.
The US don’t have a few years it will probably not exist at the end of the years if nothing is done
Never underestimate how much damage a dying empire can do when lashing out trying to hold on to power. The world needs to prepare to deal with the US for decades if necessary.
A empire will exist for sure but it won’t be the US anymore
It will be called that. But that’s kind of already happened.
In most of the US they have HOA who likely forbid such things for an absurd fear that a slightly uglier house down in your street will tank your property’s value.
I bought several fire arms recently and asked the local gun shops in a very generic sense about how sales were. All three claimed traditional winter slow sales and reported no uptick in sales. Also the local pawn shop guy has a ton of guns, there aren’t any ammo shortages, all the paper work is sailed through no delays, the conceal and carry course I was required to take to carry a pistol was no where near full and the instructor said things are slow (but his class did kind of suck it was just the soonest one near me); that’s been my experience the last three months.
I’ve always been interested in firearms, but not interested enough to convince my wife we should own any, well, she’s convinced now! and I never had to say anything, so I agree with your comment.
It largely depends on the location. For example, in the PNW, especially Western Washington and Oregon, people are very aware of that fact. Many around here are arming, protesting, and becoming more and more self sufficient.
For their part, the Washington State government has sued the Trump administration multiple times, and for now, has blocked some of the executive orders in federal court. Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he’s more than willing to ignore.
Meanwhile in states like Utah (where some of my family lives), they still have their heads in the sand, and don’t seem to be bothered. Not to generalize, because some people there are aware, but they’re outnumbered by the ignorant public there. Many people there who are aware are either trapped due to financial reasons or are actively trying to leave for blue states.
I have seen that some GOP voters are starting to feel the financial burn, but most of them still try to blame it on Biden.
This doesn’t seem to be actually answering the question. The question was about how the US was perceived by other countries, not how Americans perceive their own government.
Huh?
Are people in the US
Are people in the US
Yes, go on…
aware that they are now definitely a rogue state
The question isn’t your awareness of what the government is doing. It’s your awareness of how the US is perceived by the rest of the world. A rogue state is “a nation that is considered very dangerous to other nations”. To answer that question, you have to reference other nations views on the US.
I don’t think I agree, and many in the thread didn’t get that idea. People outside of the US are obviously aware, the title is clearly asking if people inside of the United States are aware. Why would someone outside of the US have to ask if people outside of the US are aware? It makes no sense.
also (emphasis mine):
people in the US aware that they are a rogue state
It makes no grammatical sense if they’re asking about opinions outside of the US.
How can you be this confused?
You’re basically proving the point of this meme.
The question is basically “Are Americans aware of how the world perceives them?”
Possible answers to that question are: “Yes, I read DW news in English, and BBC news too. I’m aware of how the world perceives the US.” Or “No, I can imagine how the world must view the US, but I only read US news so I can only guess.”
I don’t think I’m the confused one here, to be honest with you, as shown by the other answers and upvotes in this thread. You do not have to specify non-US news to know that we’re a rogue state - plenty of US media reports on it all the same. The question is clearly asking if Americans are aware that they’re now a rogue state, and I answered appropriately.
It seems like maybe you don’t want that to be the case, but my answer still stands: Yes, many Americans, especially in the PNW, are very aware of that fact. Americans in red states [the ones who watch Fox news especially] have their heads in the sand. You do not need to consume any media at all to be aware of that fact, it helps, but you don’t require it to acknowledge it.
I fully understand and acknowledge that we’re seen as a rogue state externally, and am painfully aware, as is much of the PNW. It’s the red states that think “we’re the best country in the world, and in fact, the only one that matters”, which is exactly what my first comment was describing. People in blue states are rightfully embarrassed and are trying to distance themselves from the federal government for precisely this reason.
I don’t think I’m the confused one here, to be honest with you, as shown by the other answers and upvotes in this thread
Yes, other people were confused. That doesn’t mean that you’re not confused.
The question is clearly asking if Americans are aware that they’re now a rogue state, and I answered appropriately.
No, what you answered was “How do Americans feel about being a rogue state?” That’s a completely different question, even though it’s the one most people answered.
I fully understand and acknowledge that we’re seen as a rogue state externally
The question was whether Americans in general understood and acknowledged that. I would say no, because most Americans don’t follow foreign news sources. People who are getting their news from Fox News, OANN and Newsmax are probably not aware of that. Instead, they probably think the US is even more respected than ever.
The only reason I know this is because I’m only interested in one particular firearm and I want to move to WA, but how are you planning to defend yourself with HB1240 in place?
I get that in peace time, 10 bullets per mag and no assault weapons is a generally good policy. But what happens MAGA decides to try to take WA by force?
In the part I haven’t looked up, does WA have a state militia that is not the national guard?
Additionally, you can purchase “parts” bags/kits which are marketed as “repair accessories” for 11+ rd magazines(usually 30 rds for 5.56 and 7.62). These somehow skirt around the law from my understanding. You’re buying the complete mag, but assemble it yourself.
Just get something fairly common and a 10rd compliant mag.
Much of hb1240 also only applies to sales and imports, but doesn’t ban ownership, so you can still have an ar-15 for example if you buy before you move.There’s plenty of higher capacity shit in the rest of the US, if it comes to a point where you need them, they’ll make their way in. Just reach hook up with your local branch of the SRA when you move there.
WA does have a state guard, but it’s like 50 people iirc.
I looked into it. If I buy one before I move, as soon as I bring the rifle into WA, it counts as importing.
What’s the SRA like? I’m not a socialist and am hesitant to be affiliated due to the path the NRA charter
Ah, I didn’t realize that counted as importing, turns out only people who already own one in Washington can bring one in if they previously left the state with it. Guess the answer is either dont do it or don’t get caught. The best answer is to ask a lawyer though. The NRA might have someone you can talk to for free if you’re willing to put up with dealing with them for a little while. Just use a disposable email / phone so they don’t bother you after.
The SRA varies a lot by chapter, it’s not really a national org in any meaningful way, but both the chapters I’ve done stuff with were pretty welcoming to social democrats. What would you describe yourself as? I might be able to give a better answer.
My local chapter is a mix of communists, anarchists, and soc dems. We also do open-invite firearm trainings, and have had some liberals show up recently, but none of them have really stuck around.
If you’re concerned about maga getting violent you’ll find like-minded people in the SRA, at least on that. If you’re open to being in an explicitly leftist space, I’d probably check them out, in case shit does hit the fan, you want to know people you can ally with.
Elizabeth Warren-aligned.
Okay, that’s like the worst answer to be able to tell lol. It’ll heavily depend on what the branch is like. My local one? You’d be welcome, but a couple people would try to radicalize you.
Not to encourage this as I am not a lawyer, but mags purchased before the bill was enacted are grandfathered in, meaning that you can still own them, you just can’t buy them. So, if you own any already, you’re likely fine as far as I can tell. I know that some people just go to Idaho to buy them and then they bring them back. Definitely illegal, but mags aren’t tracked in any shape or form so they do it.
The semi automatic rifles themselves, as long as they were registered before the bill passed, were also grandfathered in. I’m not sure if out of state purchases count in that or not, though.
I don’t believe there’s any sort of official “militia”, but the SRA is very active in the region and may qualify as one.
Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he’s more than willing to ignore.
I think that’s been one of the biggest surprises to this European spectator - that justice can be ignored if you’re powerful enough in America.
We had glimpses of it with the first end-of-term pardons. Then Biden did the same for his son, and Trump released all those who committed treason in his name on his first day of his second term. All those people were fund guilt after due process, but someone can unilaterally say “let them free” and they’re out. I totally understand the lawyer quitting his career when Trump was “pardoned” for his own crimes after being elected. Biggest case of his career, years invested in training and work and he played a blinder - only for it to be turned to nothing.
So we’ve learned that if you’re rich in the US (because rich == powerful there like nowhere else in the world) then you are untouchable by justice. For a country that was literally born from a civil war, that’s a pretty huge failing of its constitution.
I live in Utah, it’s about 90% people cheering at Trump and 10% very polite demonstrations against the right that are highly criticized. Feels so muted here.
As is typical for the US, 1/3 are deeply aware, 1/3 are in full “patriotic” support, and 1/3 are too distracted by the latest TikTok dance to notice.
should have voted democrat i guess
I think there’s another 1/3 - maybe at intersection of them all.
A great many people in shock, and don’t realise this is just America mask-off.
It’s standard American foreign policy and has been for 60 years. The wars they have started, the regime change, it’s all standard. Ask anyone in South America or the Middle East.
am from south america, can confirm. my country was couped by the cia, and we are still suffering from the consequences.
*100 years … America has been doing this since before any of the world wars
In a burning house with three people, one is fighting the fire, one is pouring gasoline on everything and one is on the couch watching TV.
I wish 1/3 of the USA were trying to put the fire out… The majority of this third are just watching in horror how the fire consumes their house
They are really earnestly and as hard as they can trying to put the raging fire out with a cheap children’s water pistol that isn’t working very well.
100% this. Every other memper of my family voted for this. I do my best, but they’re so blinded by the media and their own bias that it’s almost impossible to convince them on even 1 topic.
Its incredibly sad and frustrating actually
The fact that you are there and aware of what is happening to your country is hope for change. I always sound doom and gloom in my posts but I’m also hopeful for the change. I’m Indigenous Canadian and my entire life has always felt like failure in everything me and my family has been exposed to for generations. The greatest thing I learned from all of it is to never give up … even in the face of overwhelming odds.
Let’s add a 4th person in there, someone who thinks they’re helping by doing nothing but yelling that the fire isn’t allowed to burn things
More like yelling at the one fighting the fire because they’re getting water everywhere
I really don’t like how y’all just described everybody
If more of you would have voted for Jill Stein, we wouldn’t be in this mess!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
It’s you. They’re talking about you.
Please, elaborate…
Democrats are the ones criticizing the ones actually trying to put out the fire but doing jack shit about it.
What’s more, they’re the ones who doused the house with gas not a half a year ago, and whenever they’re not delighting in the terror going “oh I bet you must love it, you didn’t vote for the lady with the matches and now you got the guy with the flamethrower” they’re passing his budgets, they’re complying with Musk’s unelected goons, they’re getting on with his Gaza agenda and largely silent about the protestors getting kidnapped.
Asking for donations isn’t resisting, it’s ransom.
“If you had just picked a better water bucket, we wouldn’t be in this mess. It’s your fault if the house burns down.”
And Lemmy is disproportionately representative of the 1/3 who are aware.
If you look at the comments on a random public social media post, you’ll find the delusional third or half.
It basically boils down to where they’re getting their information, or rather, whether it’s information or “information”. A large swath of the population is so propagandized by right wing rag “media” that they are functionally incapable of rational thought.
Yes to both halves of the question.
I went abroad where a lot of Americans were. I ended up fucking one and his wife. That wasn’t important to the rest of the story but I really feel proud of myself for that and can’t brag anywhere else.
Anyways, from the Americans I met, the overall majority of them were not very aware of what goes on in the news. The common sentiment was that they tuned out from all the news after November and still have to show up to their jobs so to them, nothing is really changing. Was eye opening.
I think in NY we are aware and the state is trying brace for the worse, and I see/hear people starting gardens, getting chickens, and basically have “bug out bags” incase things go sideways.
Very understandable, especially since the president still owes your state half a billion dollars for massive financial fraud - for which he didn’t even go to prison. What actually happened to there?
Trump appealed and it’s languishing in the system
