Yes, it’s a shame fascists are so hell bent on doing that to us. But perhaps if they experience consequences, they may elect to do literally anything else with their life than harass queer people.
But I know I’m being too optimistic.
Some fascists would rather die than be better human beings… So it is only generous to oblige them.
I don’t think violently hurting people is a good idea.
A lot of people forget, due to the exceptionally stable nature of modern Western society, that society is built on violence. We, as citizens of a polity, subcontract out our violence to a central state. And this is, to at least some degree, a good thing - there’s a central entity which can be observed and judged and regulated, rather than a million people all trying to enforce and judge one another’s usage of violence as justified or unjustified.
But ultimately, such subcontracting of violence is conditional - as long as the central state represents our rights adequately, to at least some degree, people are willing to continue to surrender their own sovereign right to commit violence to it. Whenever the central state does not represent a citizen’s rights adequately, the citizen often withdraws that surrender of sovereignty - either in total or, more often, conditionally - to protect their own rights.
When you make a contract - even in something as small as buying an apple - you are relying on the threat of force from the state to back it - “We will forcibly remove property or freedom from you if you violate this contract.” Violence is a part of everyday life - what’s important is to act in such a way that minimizes the need for it. In the case of defense of LGBT rights, sometimes that means using violence as a means of deterrence against the violence of bigots that is insufficiently deterred by state action.
Pork barrel spending is a saying, I think you’re describing the Four boxes of liberty. Jury doesn’t seem to do a damn thing when they just get pardoned shortly after conviction, we are somewhere between jury and cartridge.
That’s a lovely sentiment, but in reality some people just need to be beaten violently. All you’re doing is putting that responsibility on someone else.
So if you were walking through the streets of Mariupol and saw a russian soldier violently raping a child (I use this example because it’s not uncommon) you’d, what, ask them nicely to stop, let them get on with it?
I understand this statement in principle but unfortunately thats not how the world works. If you tolerate intolerance you will just end up opressed or dead.
Fascists don’t have any problems hurting and killing whoever they deem not worthy of living, they should be met with the same prejudice.
You have two opposing groups, let’s call them a and B. Group a says “we dont think group b has a right to exist and we are prepared to get violent” and group b says “we will never use violence”. How long do you expect group b to last?
Fascists are mercifully not common where I live, but if I hear one mouthing off they’re going to get a savage beating.
Surely the answer is both sides decided the other doesnt have a right to exist. There’s no difference between labeling someone a Nazi or labeling someone trans when the only point is to excuse violence on that group.
People are letting their emotions cloud their better judgment, or they haven’t developed better judgment yet. Unfortunately people think very short term and often mold reasoning around their actions after the fact.
A trans person is a trans person does not have a choice about their identity. Being a nazi is a choice you make because you want to hate people. A nazi merely needs to decide not to be a cunt and the problem resolves itself. The only way a trans person can make peace with a nazi is by hiding who they are and living a lie. It’s not the same. And if you think it is then either A: you’re delusional or B: you know I’m right but you’re also a nazi.
To put it a different way, should black people go around in white face to make the kkk happy?
They are similar in american society because both would argue they have a right to exist, and both are targets for violence in public if they are overt about it. I’m simply saying neither should be attacked, the whole point is to coexist. People need to learn how to de-escalate and create bridges, not hit each other in the face with bricks.
Edit to answer your question: Obviously not, black people don’t want to be white people. Trans people do want to pass as a specific gender.
Or do you mean we should protect fascists? Because no. That is not how we get and keep our rights. We get and keep our rights by negotiating, and political power, un fortunately, is stored in barrels. I think that’s how that saying goes.
Dehumanizing a fictional enemy lets collectivists and terrorist supporters feel like they are in a real war without being in one and also let’s them balance the cognitive dissonance of a discourse that claims to accept others while in practice they just want to get rid of others
Fascists only know one language, and that is violence. They firmly believe “Might makes right” and so, we must show them strength such that they fear to challenge us ever again.
“Just turn the other cheek, be the bigger person, take the high road, and as long as you give everyone the benefit of the doubt good things will come to you”. All phrases used by abusers to manipulate people into taking abuse. After all if you keep being a good person and don’t retaliate you will be rewarded with an eternity of paradise and those who hurt will eternally suffer ::snickers with the collection plate::
in fact, not punching a nazi when you have the opportunity is in itself a net negative, so we can say it’s immoral to not punch a nazi whenever possible.
One problem with “fascists should be met w violence” is in the lack of definition for fascist. I can tell you, in my experience, saying something like “I don’t want universal healthcare” is enough to earn me the label of “fascist” in leftwing forums like Lemmy and Reddit.
If the logic is “people who disagree are fascists, and fascists deserve violence” or more simply “people who disagree deserve violence”… well isn’t that what fascists say??
Do you agree that that example at least highlights a serious problem in the chain of logic?
No, that’s you and others being petty, that’s not fascism. If you want other people to be dead on the basis of who they were born as and attempt to make those ideals a reality you are a fascist and death for you would be a net positive. Don’t be a crybaby, be realistic and stop being such a reactionary child.
Edit: And that is not reason, that is just myopic self justification. If you have the problem that people are constantly calling you a fascist and you’re not arguing for death camps and absolute authoritarianism, then the thing that’s going on is that you’re just an insufferable and controlling asshole.
Edit: Also, point blank, supporting fascists makes you a fascist.
It’s multipurpose, it celebrates pride, and it can be used to smack a fascist with if they get in your face about it <3
I don’t think violently hurting people is a good idea.
Yes, it’s a shame fascists are so hell bent on doing that to us. But perhaps if they experience consequences, they may elect to do literally anything else with their life than harass queer people.
But I know I’m being too optimistic.
Some fascists would rather die than be better human beings… So it is only generous to oblige them.
Unfortunately, showing a brick to a fascist’s face will likely just reinforce their bullshit. Still effective though.
Fascists are cowards. A brick to the face will keep most of them from putting themselves in situations conducive to future bricks to the face
Fascist lives don’t matter.
How do you think Pride managed to become a reality? With “thank you” cards?
“Thank you for respecting our identity :)” written on a brick.
Show it to friends, ‘show it’ to foes.
Then the rest of us will handle it and accept thank-you’s later.
Nah, Nazis don’t deserve respect or peace. See the paradox of tolerance.
Yeah, you’re right. I really wish these fascists would stop trying to hurt people who did nothing to them.
Fascists aren’t people.
Sounds like you’re fine with watching others get hurt as long as it isn’t you.
Fascist lives dont matter
A lot of people forget, due to the exceptionally stable nature of modern Western society, that society is built on violence. We, as citizens of a polity, subcontract out our violence to a central state. And this is, to at least some degree, a good thing - there’s a central entity which can be observed and judged and regulated, rather than a million people all trying to enforce and judge one another’s usage of violence as justified or unjustified.
But ultimately, such subcontracting of violence is conditional - as long as the central state represents our rights adequately, to at least some degree, people are willing to continue to surrender their own sovereign right to commit violence to it. Whenever the central state does not represent a citizen’s rights adequately, the citizen often withdraws that surrender of sovereignty - either in total or, more often, conditionally - to protect their own rights.
When you make a contract - even in something as small as buying an apple - you are relying on the threat of force from the state to back it - “We will forcibly remove property or freedom from you if you violate this contract.” Violence is a part of everyday life - what’s important is to act in such a way that minimizes the need for it. In the case of defense of LGBT rights, sometimes that means using violence as a means of deterrence against the violence of bigots that is insufficiently deterred by state action.
Or, when the state threatens us, as it so often does.
As indicated at that first pride.
Gotta remind the complacent goons that oppression has consequences. 👍
Political power is, as they say (i think they say this) kept in barrels
And you should drop those barrels on cops.
Pork barrel spending is a saying, I think you’re describing the Four boxes of liberty. Jury doesn’t seem to do a damn thing when they just get pardoned shortly after conviction, we are somewhere between jury and cartridge.
Fuck, this is an insanely good comment!
When those people want me dead it’s mere self defense.
Tell that to the fascists.
I tell it to everybody, whether they are actively violent or not.
That’s a lovely sentiment, but in reality some people just need to be beaten violently. All you’re doing is putting that responsibility on someone else.
I don’t believe in justifying violence on humans or animals.
So if you were walking through the streets of Mariupol and saw a russian soldier violently raping a child (I use this example because it’s not uncommon) you’d, what, ask them nicely to stop, let them get on with it?
I understand this statement in principle but unfortunately thats not how the world works. If you tolerate intolerance you will just end up opressed or dead. Fascists don’t have any problems hurting and killing whoever they deem not worthy of living, they should be met with the same prejudice.
This. Violence against fascists isn’t really violence, it’s enforcement of the societal End User License Agreement.
You understand how circular that reasoning is right?
You have two opposing groups, let’s call them a and B. Group a says “we dont think group b has a right to exist and we are prepared to get violent” and group b says “we will never use violence”. How long do you expect group b to last?
Fascists are mercifully not common where I live, but if I hear one mouthing off they’re going to get a savage beating.
Surely the answer is both sides decided the other doesnt have a right to exist. There’s no difference between labeling someone a Nazi or labeling someone trans when the only point is to excuse violence on that group.
People are letting their emotions cloud their better judgment, or they haven’t developed better judgment yet. Unfortunately people think very short term and often mold reasoning around their actions after the fact.
A trans person is a trans person does not have a choice about their identity. Being a nazi is a choice you make because you want to hate people. A nazi merely needs to decide not to be a cunt and the problem resolves itself. The only way a trans person can make peace with a nazi is by hiding who they are and living a lie. It’s not the same. And if you think it is then either A: you’re delusional or B: you know I’m right but you’re also a nazi.
To put it a different way, should black people go around in white face to make the kkk happy?
They are similar in american society because both would argue they have a right to exist, and both are targets for violence in public if they are overt about it. I’m simply saying neither should be attacked, the whole point is to coexist. People need to learn how to de-escalate and create bridges, not hit each other in the face with bricks.
Edit to answer your question: Obviously not, black people don’t want to be white people. Trans people do want to pass as a specific gender.
Fascists arent people, so i agree.
Or do you mean we should protect fascists? Because no. That is not how we get and keep our rights. We get and keep our rights by negotiating, and political power, un fortunately, is stored in barrels. I think that’s how that saying goes.
What is the point of this? Fascists are obviously people. There is no non-person fascist. What do you gain by pretending otherwise?
Not in any of the ways that matter.
Dehumanizing a fictional enemy lets collectivists and terrorist supporters feel like they are in a real war without being in one and also let’s them balance the cognitive dissonance of a discourse that claims to accept others while in practice they just want to get rid of others
It’s fascinating, actually
Fascists only know one language, and that is violence. They firmly believe “Might makes right” and so, we must show them strength such that they fear to challenge us ever again.
I do
I agree, that’s why we need to violently harm those who would violently harm us, our loved ones and others like us and our loved ones.
That’s the greatest justification the government needed, do not complain when it is used against you
neither do i. good thing fascists aren’t people.
“Just turn the other cheek, be the bigger person, take the high road, and as long as you give everyone the benefit of the doubt good things will come to you”. All phrases used by abusers to manipulate people into taking abuse. After all if you keep being a good person and don’t retaliate you will be rewarded with an eternity of paradise and those who hurt will eternally suffer ::snickers with the collection plate::
I agree. But you have to defend yourself against people who are violent against you for not being up to their standards and beliefs.
But if you are attacked for being who you are, feel free to use words like “please stop, don’t do this” instead of a brick.
It is an objectively good thing for the world when a violent bigot gets their head caved in.
Unless they’re fascists. Because punching nazis is a net positive for the world
in fact, not punching a nazi when you have the opportunity is in itself a net negative, so we can say it’s immoral to not punch a nazi whenever possible.
Punching Nazis is always self defence, since being a Nazi in public is an act of violence.
They won’t think twice about violently hurting trans folk though so… Yeah
They might when folk gotta brick tho. :P
What would be the issue with that.
What justified this instance of your violence vs one instance of their violence?
Crazy responses huh? If it makes you feel better, after they chase off any voices of reason, these type of people resort to eating eachother.
What is the voice of reason for fascists?
It’s a good question.
One problem with “fascists should be met w violence” is in the lack of definition for fascist. I can tell you, in my experience, saying something like “I don’t want universal healthcare” is enough to earn me the label of “fascist” in leftwing forums like Lemmy and Reddit.
If the logic is “people who disagree are fascists, and fascists deserve violence” or more simply “people who disagree deserve violence”… well isn’t that what fascists say??
Do you agree that that example at least highlights a serious problem in the chain of logic?
No, that’s you and others being petty, that’s not fascism. If you want other people to be dead on the basis of who they were born as and attempt to make those ideals a reality you are a fascist and death for you would be a net positive. Don’t be a crybaby, be realistic and stop being such a reactionary child.
Edit: And that is not reason, that is just myopic self justification. If you have the problem that people are constantly calling you a fascist and you’re not arguing for death camps and absolute authoritarianism, then the thing that’s going on is that you’re just an insufferable and controlling asshole.
Edit: Also, point blank, supporting fascists makes you a fascist.
Im being a crybaby? Sorry, im not following.
Yup. Catch on.
Yeah im trying. What did I say/do?
Nazis arent people
Not for long if you have a brick handy anyway
Totally depends on who you’re hurting.
No.
Even animals don’t deserve to be treated violently.
That implies animals are lesser than fascists.
it implies violence is unacceptable towards life