• Surenho@lemmy.wtf
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    14 days ago

    The museum could pay rent per item to the country the artifacts originate from? Bad idea?

  • greenskye@lemmy.zip
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    14 days ago

    What’s the opinion on certain high risk countries where there’s a high likelihood of the artifacts simply being destroyed? If I remember correctly ISIS and other similar organizations have burned or bombed several historical sites before.

    • MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml
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      14 days ago

      Much like the theft of historical artifacts by the UK et al, ISIS was the result of decades of imperialist meddling by the US. Maybe just leave things be and let the locals work out what they want to do with their land, their people, and the artifacts on it. Offering assistance without strings attached is good, interventions are bad.

      It’s like offering to help your neighbor with their yard: it’s acceptable to offer to lend them your mower, but it’s not acceptable to dig up everything on their property, replace it with grass sod, and spray it regularly with herbicides because you didn’t like the look of their local fauna and are afraid the dandelions and clover would spread to your lawn after your first intervention.

      • greenskye@lemmy.zip
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        14 days ago

        Who do you recognize as the authority to make that decision though? If the locals are currently ruled by a terrorist group or Nazis or whatever, do they get to decide? What about the locals that disagree with the government currently in power?

        And an answer of ‘if we just didn’t needlessly meddle’ might be the ideal, but it’s ignoring the realities that we have meddled and some countries are unlikely to stop doing so. We have to accept the world we have not the one we wished we had.

    • Kühlschrank@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      We have to be extremely wary of people who cite that because it’s so easily used as a justification for artifact theft and can have deep roots in racism.

    • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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      14 days ago

      Museums should participate in cultural exchange, if a museum feels under threat then they have channels they can trust to protect their artifacts until they can be returned

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        14 days ago

        if a museum feels under threat

        If you run a museum in Afghanistan and are afraid that the Taliban is going to execute you unless you destroy some blasphemous statue, are you going to risk your life to send the artifact to the British Museum, or are you just going to destroy it? Yeah, some heroes will definitely risk their lives, but most won’t.

    • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      The only opinion that should matter is that of the people the artifacts belong to.

      “It’s safer with us” is an excuse that’s been abused by colonizers and raiders for too long.

      • greenskye@lemmy.zip
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        14 days ago

        What if some of the locals want it taken away for protection, but the government wants it destroyed?

        There’s no clear ‘owner’ in many cases. I think it places where it’s uncertain, then we should prioritize saving the artifacts over the ones that seek to destroy them.

        • pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe
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          14 days ago

          You will never be able to get everyone to agree on anything and you can’t hold a referendum for every artifact.

          So as far as responsibility goes, barring edge cases, it should be left upto the government to decide, as they represent the people.

          And tbh, this feels like an argument made in bad faith, because this is such a rare case. No government is going to ask for an artifact back and then destroy it. What happened in afganistan and Syria was a tragedy (they didn’t ask for those artifacts back, they were already there) But that only happened because the previous governments had been destabilized by Russian and American influences. (Iraq war - Isis, Afganistan war - alqaeda)

          There’s no clear ‘owner’ in many cases.

          Just return it to the country where it was taken from. And I don’t think there are many cases where ownership is vague, most are pretty plain and clear.

          then we should prioritize saving the artifacts over the ones that seek to destroy them.

          That’s not on you, that’s on their original keepers. Otherwise you are propagating colonial era crimes and justifying them by arguing in bad faith.

          P.s.

          • Museums have a notorious record when it comes to maintaining artifacts (they aren’t shining beacons of humanity), especially the British museum.
          • They also do less than what’s needed to discourage artifact smuggling.
          • watch: https://youtu.be/eJPLiT1kCSM
      • KittyCat@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        In many cases there is no owner, they’re from a completely separate culture that happened to occupy the same region in the past.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        13 days ago

        The only opinion that should matter is that of the people the artifacts belong to.

        Which people? The government? So in Afghanistan it’s up to the Taliban? If you don’t trust that the government of a country represents the will of the people, then how do you determine what the people want?

        And, again, which people? Is a totem pole in a museum in Canada the property of the Canadian people? Or is it something that belongs to the Haida people, and it doesn’t matter what other Canadians want? If it is up to the Haida, it is up to the Council of the Haida Nation, or is it up to the band the original artist belonged to?

        What about a Tatar artifact found in Donetsk? Who gets control over that? Is it the Russians since they occupy Donetsk? The Ukrainians because they used to occupy it? Do you have to study the blood of various Ukrainian people to figure out who has the most surviving Tatar DNA?

        • 0x0@lemmy.zip
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          13 days ago

          If you don’t trust that the government of a country represents the will of the people, then how do you determine what the people want?

          You mean most governments?

    • damdy@lemm.ee
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      14 days ago

      To be fair. Most of the pyramids were raided far before the British took an interest and whatever they held has now been lost to time.

      • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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        14 days ago

        It’s not quite the same thing (particularly because of the motivation), but, uhh…I suggest you read about Abu Simbel, if you haven’t already.

    • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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      14 days ago
      how to write lists
      - Why there are pyramids in Egypt?
      - Because Brits couldn’t moved them to British Museum.
      

      renders to

      • Why there are pyramids in Egypt?
      • Because Brits couldn’t moved them to British Museum.

      Markdown guide is in the toolbar (?⃝) alongside a button for lists.

      • muhyb@programming.dev
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        14 days ago

        Well, that’s the reason why I didn’t write it like that. I wanted it to look like a dash, just like in novels.

            • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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              14 days ago

              Good question: for basic accessibility, structure should be conveyed, which adds

              when technologies support programmatic relationships, it is strongly encouraged that information and relationships be programmatically determined

              The web supports programmatic relationships through correct markup, so the technique using semantic elements to mark up structure applies, specifically by using ol, ul and dl for lists or groups of links or the markdown equivalent.

              If you want to experience this yourself, then put on a blindfold, use a screenreader & compare your “list” to mine.

              • muhyb@programming.dev
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                14 days ago

                I don’t have a screen reader installed so I cannot try it but I can guess how it can screw with it. However I agree with Monkey With A Shell here. It’s not realistic for all users to follow semantics, this can only be solved with a better software.

                While I use markdown daily, apparently there are still things I don’t know about it. Well, I mostly learn them when I need them but still. So, I could use (speech dash) instead of -, which I assume wouldn’t cause a problem with a screen reader. There is no way for me to remember its shortcut on the keyboard, but it seems Markdown already covered this with --- which ends up rendered as .

                Thanks for making me noticing about it, learned something new today.

                • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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                  14 days ago

                  It’s not realistic for all users to follow semantics

                  Not realistic for users to write lists the normal way that doesn’t look wrong? I don’t know guys

                  -first
                  
                  -second
                  
                  -third
                  

                  looks obviously bad whereas

                  - first
                  - second
                  - third
                  

                  looks right. Then you see the rendered result in preview. You also had a button in the toolbar to create a list.

                  I don’t think this is asking much.

                  If you weren’t trying to write a list, though, then I don’t know what you were doing & I doubt a chat bot will either: could you link to an example of what you were trying to do? For all you know, I’m a chat bot not figuring out your intent. No technology is about to fix PEBKAC.

                  I think the bottom line is if you write lists normally, then everything else including accessibility will turn out right without you needing to understand the intricacies.

              • ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com
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                14 days ago

                It doesn’t look like a list to me, but a riddle.

                Would putting a Q: and A: in front of them satisfy you or would that send you off on a different tangent of chastising web users on their formatting?

                Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech, the tech should get better at interpreting human tendencies of writing. Even today I can write in a non-structured natural language form and a decent chat bot can typically make a reasonable interpretation of it without help.

                • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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                  14 days ago

                  It doesn’t look like a list to me

                  Then the - weren’t needed.

                  Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech

                  1. Nah, writing a space the conventional way suffices: - SPACE list item. Even aesthetically, the plain text looks atrocious without a space there & worse when rendered.
                  2. The technology is fine, there was even a button in the toolbar. It’s not that hard to figure out to anyone trying: there’s a preview button & they can edit.

                  All anyone has to do is (1) follow regular convention or (2) use the technology. Getting this wrong despite the technology & standard convention is less a technology problem & more a user problem.

        • u/lukmly013 💾 (lemmy.sdf.org)@lemmy.sdf.org
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          14 days ago

          By the way, Markdown also takes escape \, which is why sometimes the shrugging emoticon is missing left arm.

          - So this
          - also works with space

          So you don’t even necessarily have to leave out the space.

          • muhyb@programming.dev
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            14 days ago

            Apparently there is already a separate symbol for speech dash, which is —. However its keyboard shortcut is obscure and I couldn’t remember it later, but Markdown already covered this it seems. Writing --- renders as —, which I’ll do from now on, if I don’t forget about it next time.

  • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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    14 days ago

    Marion, this is a movie made in the 1980s and set in the 1930s, what the hell are you even talking about?

      • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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        14 days ago

        Marion, you knew when you met me that I came from the mind of George Lucas. It’s not my fault I’m a little fucked up!

    • Anomalocaris@lemm.ee
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      14 days ago

      That attitude gets retconed in the great circle.

      where he explicitly says that it belongs in a museum and helps locals get their relics to keep safe in their museums. ie, it belongs in their museums.

      good game overall

  • burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    if you want to compare Indiana Jones to real life, the movies say flat out that he is an unscrupulous grave robber and he is completely aware of the hypocrisy. its part of his character arc, where he’s all about fortune and glory and doesnt believe in any of the mystical crap, until he is confronted with powers he didn’t understand and fights to stop others from exploiting them. and at the end of the day it was a movie

    • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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      14 days ago

      This is why I always donate my finished books to my local library. I don’t need them and, if I want to read them again, I can always just go check it out from the library.